Questions...

Whats worse? Not praying OR going to "jinns"and "peers" to ask them stuff....(maybe to ask them to help/guide you to a decision/tell you the outcome of something (shirk)?

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Whats worse? Not praying OR going to "jinns"and "peers" to ask them stuff....(maybe to ask them to help/guide you to a decision/tell you the outcome of something (shirk)?

If the person is going to jinns and asking them to guide him etc then that is obviously worse, but if a person is going to peer babas and asking them for advice and stuff then naturally not making Salaah would be worse.

I heard a lecture on Ash'aris...

hmm..

Positive or negative ^^^?

It was sheikh Abu 'Abdis Salaam, he was talking about the attributes of Allah, and there was a whole part about Ash'aris, but I dunno if I'm being biased cause I dunno about Ash'ari creed from an actual ash'ari, I've just listened to this... he didn't go so into it, but the topic on hand was about the kalaam of Allah, and he mentioned the opinion of the ash'aris and it kinda left me slightly confused... but I don't think I am able to make an opinion due to my complete lack of knowledge. =o

Cause from what Admin has said even in some posts, how do you know what verses to do ta'weel on, so that's what confuses me.

But I dunno, I don't feel fit to discuss stuff like this cause I might say something wrong in ignorance, I just am kinda confused about the ta'weel thing.

I do have a question though, normal people that aren't scholars should they even get into stuff like this? Like I know you gotta learn basic aqeedah but what does this consist of?

No one jump down my throat I already said I don't know anything... =o

hmm..

Okay, if you say 'oh Allah, I will do this thing for you'

Is that an oath? because there's no promise... it's just, I will do this...

And what if you've lost the chance... now what do you do? Do you have to go fulfil it some other way?

Did Allah only create this dunya cause He wanted to send the messenger of Allah ?

I know Allah says he only created us to worship Him, but yesterday I heard if Allah had not willed to place the Prophet in the dunya then we would not have been here either

Correcto?


what's point asking. =( no one's gonna answer anyway.. *sigh*

Maybe this will be of some help?

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I have got a question regarding a hadiith. How sound is the hadiith, that states, that it were not for Muhammad (saw) Allaah (swt) would not have created this world???
To be honest I am a bit suspicious about this hadiith, could you shatter some light in the matter?.


Praise be to Allaah.

Many false and fabricated ahaadeeth have been narrated that say similar things. For example:

“Were it not for you, I would not have created the universe.”

This was quoted by al-Shawkaani in al-Fawaa’id al-Majmoo’ah fi’l-Ahaadeeth al-Mawdoo’ah (p. 326). He said:

Al-San’aani said: (it is) mawdoo’ (fabricated).

Al-Albaani said in al-Silsilah al-Da’eefah (282): (it is) mawdoo’.

Another example is the hadeeth narrated by al-Haakim according to which Ibn ‘Abbaas said:

“Allaah revealed to ‘Eesa (Jesus, peace be upon him): ‘O ‘Eesa, believe in Muhammad, and tell whoever you meet of your ummah to believe in him. For were it not for Muhammad, I would not have created Adam, and were it not for Muhammad, I would not have created Paradise and Hell. I created the Throne over the water and it would not settle until I wrote on it, Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah Muhammad Rasool Allaah (There is no god but Allaah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah).”

Al-Haakim said: its isnaad is saheeh! But al-Dhahabi commented on that and said: I believe it is fabricated and falsely attributed to Sa’eed.

Meaning, Sa’eed ibn Abu ‘Aroobah (one of the narrators of this hadeeth). This hadeeth was narrated from him by ‘Amr ibn Aws al-Ansaari, who is the one who is accused of fabricating it. Al-Dhahabi mentioned him in al-Meezaan where he said: “He produced a munkar report,” then he quoted this hadeeth, and said, “I believe that it is mawdoo’ (fabricated).” Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar agreed with him, as it says in al-Lisaan.

Al-Albaani said in al-Silsilah al-Da’eefah (280): There is no basis for it.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked:

Is the hadeeth which some people quote – “Were it not for you, Allaah would not have created the Throne or the Kursiy or the earth or the heavens or the sun or the moon or anything else” saheeh or nor?

He replied:

Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the leader of the sons of Adam, and the best and noblest of creation, hence some people say that Allaah created the universe because of him, or that were it not for him, Allaah would not have created the Throne or the Kursiy or the earth or the heavens or the sun or the moon.

But this hadeeth that is narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is neither saheeh (sound) nor da’eef (weak), and it was not narrated by any scholar in a hadeeth from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Neither was it known from the Sahaabah. Rather it is the words of one who is unknown.

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 11/86-96.

The Standing Committee was asked:

Can it be said that Allaah created the heavens and the earth for the purpose of creating the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)? What is the meaning of the hadeeth, “Were it not for you the universe would not have been created,” and does this hadeeth have any basis?

They replied:

The heavens and the earth were not created for the sake of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), rather they were created for the purpose which Allaah mentions (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is Allaah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). His Command descends between them (heavens and earth), that you may know that Allaah has power over all things, and that Allaah surrounds all things in (His) Knowledge”

[al-Talaaq 65:12]

As for the hadeeth mentioned, it is falsely attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and has no sound basis.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 1/312

Shaykh Ibn Baaz was asked about this hadeeth and said:

The answer is that this was transmitted from the words of some of the common people who have no understanding. Some people say that the world was created for the sake of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and were it not for Muhammad the world would not have been created and mankind would not have been created. This is false and has no basis, and these are corrupt words. Allaah created the world so that He would be known and worshipped. He created the world and He created mankind so that His names and attributes, His power and knowledge, would be known and so that He alone would be worshipped with no partner or associate, and so that He would be obeyed – not for the sake of Muhammad or for the sake of Nooh or Moosa or ‘Eesa or any other Prophet. Rather Allaah created the universe so that He alone would be worshipped, with no partner or associate.

Fataawa Noor ‘ala al-Darb, 46.

And Allaah knows best.

Yep, .

Perhaps other scholars say that the hadiths are sahih hence why they use them... I dunno. But, alhamdulillah I read the hadiths and that now so I know where it comes from at least.

Not sure if it's rude to just ask for evidence in class.

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but I don't think I am able to make an opinion due to my complete lack of knowledge. =o

Do you know how many months the arguments between salafis and ash'aris left me totally confused? I too couldn't come to a conclusion, it's only when i studied the ash'ari 'aqeedah from an ash'ari and the salafi 'aqeedah from a salafi that i understood where each one is coming from, so don't worry about it right now.

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I do have a question though, normal people that aren't scholars should they even get into stuff like this? Like I know you gotta learn basic aqeedah but what does this consist of?

There's a nice book by qadhi iyyadh rahimahullaah called "The foundations of islaam", here's the link, Download

I haven't read it fully myself but it looks nice.

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but I dunno if I'm being biased cause I dunno about Ash'ari creed from an actual ash'ari,

I am very against learning about one group from an opposing group or even a different group, if i were to just believe everything everyone says then i'd have to believe that imaam ibn taymiyyah rahimahullaah was a mujassim kaafir that said Allaah has a body and is sitting on a chair and Allaah put a space next to him and that's where Rasoolullaah Sallallaahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallam sits, wallaahi that's the type of things i've heard people say, therefore if you want to know abotu ash'aris then learn from an ash'ari, if you want to know about salafis then learn from a salafi, if you want to know about tablighis then learn from a tablighi, if you want to know about the ahbaash then learn from one, but never take the word of one group regarding another, because some purposely lie, and others don't know any better so they just repeat the lies.

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Okay, if you say 'oh Allah, I will do this thing for you'

Is that an oath? because there's no promise... it's just, I will do this...

And what if you've lost the chance... now what do you do? Do you have to go fulfil it some other way?

Can you give a bit more info than that?

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Not sure if it's rude to just ask for evidence in class.

Oh yes they regard it as very rude, but then again i am a rude person so i never worry about things like that, but people don't like you to ask for daleel, i am not satisfied taking someones word for anything, if it's a matter of deen then i want deeni proof for it, with the result is that people claim i want to make islaam dry, by not wanting to accept stories and dreams which has no basis in the sharee'ah.

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Perhaps other scholars say that the hadiths are sahih hence why they use them... I dunno.

It's possible, and if it is as such then i bet al ghazalli on ummah would know something more about it, you should ask him.

But I can't say anything just yet... 1 month trial and if I annoy any teacher I'll be back to square one.

About the oath thing.. I shall get back to you in a few days maybe insha Allah, but I hope there's no need.

If it is an oath, is there a time limit? As long as you fulfill it is it alright?

And, a general oath like 'oh Allah I will change... ' perhaps you aren't involved in any sin, or anything it's just general cause shaytaan whispered to you and said 'your tawbah won't be accepted unless you vow... ' so you did, what exactly do you do then? Since it was so general.. confusing huh. Vows and that shouldn't be made so hastily... right.

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But I can't say anything just yet... 1 month trial and if I annoy any teacher I'll be back to square one.

Well if you want any daleel then feel free to ask on the forum, and we'll all try to help if we know the daleel Inshaa Allaah, it's what i done myself, if you look at my threads on ummah which are questions, the majority of them were for that very reason of not wanting to ask in class, either because the teacher don't know the daleel, or it would drag out into a long discussion, or whatever the case may be.

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About the oath thing.. I shall get back to you in a few days maybe insha Allah, but I hope there's no need.

If it is an oath, is there a time limit? As long as you fulfill it is it alright?

If you made a vow (nadhr) then you have to fulfill it, like if you said O Allaah if you let me pass my exams then i'll make 20 rakaats every night, but if you made a statement like O Allaah i want to stop sinning and gain closeness to you, then that isn't a vow, and from what i get of what you said it looks like a statement rather than a vow.

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Vows and that shouldn't be made so hastily... right.

Quite, when you make a vow you have to stick to it, therefore you should never make a vow that's difficult, or that will become difficult for you in the future.

Admin wrote:

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but I dunno if I'm being biased cause I dunno about Ash'ari creed from an actual ash'ari,

I am very against learning about one group from an opposing group or even a different group, if i were to just believe everything everyone says then i'd have to believe that imaam ibn taymiyyah rahimahullaah was a mujassim kaafir that said Allaah has a body and is sitting on a chair and Allaah put a space next to him and that's where Rasoolullaah Sallallaahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallam sits, wallaahi that's the type of things i've heard people say, therefore if you want to know abotu ash'aris then learn from an ash'ari, if you want to know about salafis then learn from a salafi, if you want to know about tablighis then learn from a tablighi, if you want to know about the ahbaash then learn from one, but never take the word of one group regarding another, because some purposely lie, and others don't know any better so they just repeat the lies.

I shall have a look at that PDF.

With regards to this, I agree. BUT I won't comment any further because I don't want to be a hypocrite. I understand I fell into this kind of mentality but I pushed my big headedness out of the way alhamdulillah and am willing to keep a huuuge open mind as long as everything is like sound and proper, and I can ask anyway if I don't understand.

But I think I still have to work on myself, especially cause if you are learning then they will tell you 'oh don't take information from here etc' but I was stubborn with that and didn't like it, however, I haven't yet checked out the other side to it .. so hence why it's a bit hypocritical for me to say you see. =o

Yah, studying ash'ari/salafi aqeedah it's easier said than done! But hmm.. we'll see..

What am I chatting we're currently doing an aqeedah book! I completely forgot... yah first is just basics like how it starts off in the PDf.. we'll see what happens as we go further.

You're doing an 'aqeedah book? which one might that be? sharh 'aqeedatun nasafiyyah? or what?

I don't have the kitaab yet. Insha Allah we will get it given to us today.

What is that one I've never heard it.

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But I think I still have to work on myself, especially cause if you are learning then they will tell you 'oh don't take information from here etc' but I was stubborn with that and didn't like it, however, I haven't yet checked out the other side to it .. so hence why it's a bit hypocritical for me to say you see. =o

There are certain groups that you don't need to check up on, you can be safe just avoiding them, amongst them are the shias, you can never trust anything from shias, another group is the barelwis, they're known fabricators and they love their fabrications, i don't suppose anyone is really interested in madkhalis since they feel they are the saved sect and everyone else is going to jahannam, hadeeth rejectors everyone knows not to listen to as they know nothing about islaam, modernists are ignoramuses who don't know the basics of islaam so they can be totally rejected, hmmm what other groups are there...

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I don't have the kitaab yet. Insha Allah we will get it given to us today.

What is that one I've never heard it

Well when you get it then i'd like to know the name of it.

It's a sharh of imaam nasafi's 'aqeedah, imaam nasafi is one of the main imaams of the maatureedees and this book seems to be taught at a lot of madaaris, i don't have it myself yet, i'm still looking for it.

Okay. I don't think it will be to be honest. Is it like hardcore? haha, like proper in depth and all, not simple? It's a very small kitaab, but maybe we will expand on that as we go through the years?

I'll have a read of the title anyway even if I don't get the book today and write it down for you insha Allah.

No it's supposed to be a very thin kitaab which touches lightly on 'aqeedah.

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About the oath thing.. I shall get back to you in a few days maybe insha Allah, but I hope there's no need.

I was just thinking about this now while vacuuming and i realised something i had overlooked, a vow is when you vow to do something which is not compulsory upon you, you can't exactly vow to do something which is already fardh upon you to do, therefore since it's fardh not to sin a vow made that you will never sin won't really have an effect because the compulsion of that never goes away, if you get what i mean.

Okay so like pretend someone did a sin, they made tawbah and part of tawbah is to make a vow? (would you say vow...) at least an intention not to fall into it again, but if it happens again you don't need to pay an expiation for breaking that oath right?

And you know how I asked if it's rude to ask for some proof to back up the claims in class, is it cause laymans aren't meant to ask for daleel? =/ Like can I not know? Until I get more knowledge? Cause I would like to know..

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I was just thinking about this now while vacuuming and i realised something i had overlooked, a vow is when you vow to do something which is not compulsory upon you, you can't exactly vow to do something which is already fardh upon you to do, therefore since it's fardh not to sin a vow made that you will never sin won't really have an effect because the compulsion of that never goes away, if you get what i mean.

I just came across something the other day which contradicts this again, in sharh ma'aani al-aathaar there's a chapter regarding saying "atoobu ilayhi" and it went on to talk about the implications of that statement, that a person is making a vow not to repeat the sin but then if the person does the sin again then he will be like one who made an oath and then broke it, so....

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Okay so like pretend someone did a sin, they made tawbah and part of tawbah is to make a vow? (would you say vow...) at least an intention not to fall into it again, but if it happens again you don't need to pay an expiation for breaking that oath right?

As far as i know you don't need to pay any kaffaarah, and Allaah knows best.

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And you know how I asked if it's rude to ask for some proof to back up the claims in class, is it cause laymans aren't meant to ask for daleel? =/ Like can I not know? Until I get more knowledge? Cause I would like to know..

Sure you're allowed to know, it's just that some people get offended and think that you're thinking they're fabricators and so on, but meh i just go ahead and do it

With all matters of al ghayb are we not allowed to imagine?

Like Jannah and naar too?