Nisaa's Arabic thread

Yep. I couldn't understand it unless it's actually being taught then it's pretty easy alhamdulillah.. I think it's like that for me in everything that requires thought.....

Do you know anywhere where one can buy all 4 translated?

مَن ضَرَبَ اخاكَ


man is asma istifhaam
daraba - f'il
akhaa - maf'ool? ah! It would make sense then for it to be like that..

and this together is اخاكَ mudaaf mudaaf ilay, correct?

Nisaa wrote:

Yep. I couldn't understand it unless it's actually being taught then it's pretty easy alhamdulillah.. I think it's like that for me in everything that requires thought.....

Do you know anywhere where one can buy all 4 translated?

عندي هذه الكتب!! لاكن هي في اللغة النجليزية.

I suppose you could find the rest of them in green street or whitechapel...not that that helps you at all sorry.

I didn't know that these books were widely used, I came across them by chance in a store and bought all four. Looked through the first one, love it, it gives me proper Arabic terminology! Wanna work through them properly in the summer inShaAllaah.

Yeah I had plans for self tutoring myself in the summer (actually ramadhan cause that's when I'll get holidays) but =( plans got pear shaped, might use some other things though, got quite a few books still to look through! =o

Alhamdulillah. I really love Arabic, and I dunno, Qur'an is just so much more amazing now.

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Do you know anywhere where one can buy all 4 translated?

I don't know about buying, but i could upload all 4 volumes if you want it?

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مَن ضَرَبَ اخاكَ

man is asma istifhaam
daraba - f'il
akhaa - maf'ool? ah! It would make sense then for it to be like that..

and this together is اخاكَ mudaaf mudaaf ilay, correct?

Aye that's right. Ka is a dhameer.

but no thank you, kalamullah already has it up so you shouldn't waste your time.

And we only have like one more chapter left before we finish part 1! I can't wait, I feel like my Arabic studies are going slow for me.. but then I can't jump ahead of class.

من المكةِ الى المصرِ فاصلة طويلة

is that grammatically incorrect?

Why can't I put alif laam before makkah..

And we done this question before my answer is

من مّكةَ الى مصرِ طويل فاصلة

but I don't understand the red

If it's mawsoof sifat, then why didn't the taweelun get made mu'annith also? I understand the makkata part.. but if I put a laam ta'reef on makkah and misr, would it make a difference?

and is this grammatically correct

أ القاضِى العادلُ فى الديوانِ


I've done it like that cause qaadhi I've made it mu'arrif bilaam right so because them words can't get a dhammah then I left it how it was.. and gave it's description the correct i'raab.. is that right? because again I'm having some problem with my work that I've done, it's marked but I think it's wrong.. =s

It can't be qaadhiya cause then it'll be nasb state and that's not right.. right?

=( I needed it cause I got test today. =/ inshaAllah these won't come in, I'm bound to find more of my dumb mistakes though

EDIT: What does this sentence mean?

بنتاه ذواتا علم و جمال

And someone explain it's tarkeeb also

Wait, does it mean "his two sisters are knowledgeable and .. " dunno what jimaal means

Correct me please

bintaa - orginally bintaani but cause it's mudaaf and tathniya the noon got dropped off
hu - dhameer, mudaaf ilay
dhawa - orginally dhawataani but mudaaf so noon got dropped and it means "waali" in urdu dunno in english =P
'ilmun and jimaalun - mudaaf ilay

Alhamdulillah! ^_^

for this one أ القاضِى العادلُ فى الديوانِ I put a al-qadhiya al-aadilu fi ad-deewanu And the deewanu is defo wrong cause it's after huroof jar.. so yeah I think I done it wrong. But I dunno which is right, and I can't ask teacher =o

can you tell me if I done that sentence right? I tried it dunno if it's correct

Beautiful?

Is it cause it's mudaaf mudaaf ilay that's why you don't have to make them feminine?

ah!

No problem, it happens to me often, even happened last time. =P Probably me confusing myself

but why did it change to jimaalun?

Nisaa wrote:

and is this grammatically correct

أ القاضِى العادلُ فى الديوانِ


I've done it like that cause qaadhi I've made it mu'arrif bilaam right so because them words can't get a dhammah then I left it how it was.. and gave it's description the correct i'raab.. is that right? because again I'm having some problem with my work that I've done, it's marked but I think it's wrong.. =s

It can't be qaadhiya cause then it'll be nasb state and that's not right.. right?

=( I needed it cause I got test today. =/ inshaAllah these won't come in, I'm bound to find more of my dumb mistakes though

EDIT: What does this sentence mean?

بنتاه ذواتا علم و جمال

And someone explain it's tarkeeb also

Wait, does it mean "his two sisters are knowledgeable and .. " dunno what jimaal means

Correct me please

bintaa - orginally bintaani but cause it's mudaaf and tathniya the noon got dropped off
hu - dhameer, mudaaf ilay
dhawa - orginally dhawataani but mudaaf so noon got dropped and it means "waali" in urdu dunno in english =P
'ilmun and jimaalun - mudaaf ilay

Alhamdulillah! ^_^

What I had previously was wrong, the blue is right and I got it changed by my teacher. So all these questions are now solved.

But naturally because I usually get easy things wrong =/ I made dumb mistakes in my test. =/ Lost 4 marks already methinks.

=o I can't believe it.. I didn't lose 4 marks..

I'm a bit confused about dhameer...what's the plural

Anyway, there's two I learnt, the marfoo' and majroor ones, I know one can join onto ism or f'il.. and the marfoo' ones are munfasil, so they can't join onto any other word..

How do you know when to use what...

I can say

hal fahimta? (that's using fa'alta)
hal fahimak?
Hal anta fahim?

la fahimtu!

And if I'm speaking to more than one person, how can I say "do you understand" hal antum fahm? Or hal fahimtukum? =/ I heard someone say just "fehmt" once.. which means "you understand" right..

The plural of dhameer is dhamaa'ir ضمائر

If you were going to say 'did you understand' you'd say 'hal fahimtum?' or if you wanted to say it in present tense (mudaari3) 'do you understand' you could say 'hal tafhamoon'? but that sounds strange!

When would you say hal fahimak? That's like...is it your understanding? to a guy. The pronoun there is a possessive pronoun.

I don't think you'd say hal anta fahim.....I don't know if people'd say that for emphasis, urby?

I don't know what 'the marfoo' and majroor ones' means care to elaborate a bit more on that?

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من المكةِ الى المصرِ فاصلة طويلة

is that grammatically incorrect?

Why can't I put alif laam before makkah..

And we done this question before my answer is

من مّكةَ الى مصرِ طويل فاصلة

but I don't understand the red

If it's mawsoof sifat, then why didn't the taweelun get made mu'annith also? I understand the makkata part.. but if I put a laam ta'reef on makkah and misr, would it make a difference?

The word makkah is a ghayr munsarif word, meaning sarf doesn't affect it, so the "min" before it will not change its harkah, it will remain as "makkata" and not become "makkati".

The best way to say that sentence would be: Min makkata ilal-miSri Taweelun faaSilatun.

that second sentence, was that written by your teacher?

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أ القاضِى العادلُ فى الديوانِ


I've done it like that cause qaadhi I've made it mu'arrif bilaam right so because them words can't get a dhammah then I left it how it was.. and gave it's description the correct i'raab.. is that right? because again I'm having some problem with my work that I've done, it's marked but I think it's wrong.. =s

It can't be qaadhiya cause then it'll be nasb state and that's not right.. right?

Is that first alif supposed to be there? is it a question?

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بنتاه ذواتا علم و جمال

And someone explain it's tarkeeb also

Wait, does it mean "his two sisters are knowledgeable and .. " dunno what jimaal means

Correct me please

bint is daughter not sister, and dhawaataa is tathniyah mu'annath as you said and it means "possessor of" so its meaning is "his two daughters are intelligent and beautiful"

and the word is "jamaal" not "jimaal", jamaal is beauty, jimaal is plural of jamal i.e. camels.

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Is it cause it's mudaaf mudaaf ilay that's why you don't have to make them feminine?

it's because of the word dhawaataa, it means "they are people of knowledge and beauty" or "they possess intelligence and beauty", both 'ilm and jamaal and mudhaaf to dhawaataa so they need not be mu'annath here.

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but why did it change to jimaalun?

It didn't change to jimaalun, it's jamaal, no sarf has been applied to the word that's why it's like that.

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Anyway, there's two I learnt, the marfoo' and majroor ones, I know one can join onto ism or f'il.. and the marfoo' ones are munfasil, so they can't join onto any other word..

How do you know when to use what...

I can say

hal fahimta? (that's using fa'alta)
hal fahimak?
Hal anta fahim?
la fahimtu!

And if I'm speaking to more than one person, how can I say "do you understand" hal antum fahm? Or hal fahimtukum? =/ I heard someone say just "fehmt" once.. which means "you understand" right..

What you mean is dhameer marfoo', dhameer mansoob and dhameer majroor, the marfoo' ones are those like ana, anta, etc they are marfoo' because they are the faa'il, the others are mansoob because they are the maf'ool.

okay let me rather do these one at a time.

ka, kuma, kum etc are used to denote possession, e.g. ra'suki = your head, these dhamaa'ir are not used for other than possession, they are dhameer majroor.

ana, anta, huwa etc are dhameer marfoo' because they are the faa'il, ya'ni they are the ones doing the action e.g. dharabtu = I hit, the dhameer in dharabtu is "ana", and ana is the one doing the hitting, so think of it as an ordinary sentence with a fi'l faa'il and maf'ool, and make the tarkeeb of it. dharabtu, the faa'il is ana, the fi'l is dharbun, fi'l aur faa'il se milkar jumla fi'liyyah.

now as for dhameer mansoob, then they are the maf'ools, for example, dharabanee = he hit me, the yaa dhameer on the end is a dhameer mansoob, because it is the maf'ool in the sentence, ya'ni the fi'l is dharbun, the faa'il is huwa, the maf'ool is ana, so fi'l aur apne faa'il aur maf'ool se milkar jumlah fi'liyyah, just like how the previous one is done.

understand the meaning of the sentence and you'll know what dhameer is which.

Samajh mein aaya?

The proper term is "hal fahimta", it means "do you understand".

"hal fahimaka" is not correct, what it means is "did he understand you" because it is "fahima" the dhameer therein being huwa, and the ka on the end refers to the person you're talking to, so there are two dhamaa'ir.

the third one, "hal anta faahimun" would not be used either, but it would mean "are you an understander"

laa fahimtu means "i did not understand", but that is used when talking about past things, if you are using it in a present discussion then you would say "laa afhamu"

When speaking to a group you will say "hal fahimtum", "fahimtukum" on the other hand has two dhamaa'ir, and it means "am i understanding you all"

fahimti?

p.s. fehmt is low class arabic

ya Allah...

That's so much information, it's gone over my head.

"fi'l aur faa'il se milkar jumla fi'liyyah" - my teacher says that.

Okay are these right.. for trying to explain to me though

The mansoob ones is it like this:

ha
huma
hum
haa
huma
hunna
ka
kuma
kum
ki
kuma
kunna
ya
nii
naa

The majroor are they these ones:

ha
huma
hum
haa
huma
hunna
ka
kuma
kum
ki
kuma
kunna
ana
nahnu

=( I dunno.. "ana" and "nahnu" comes on the marfoo' ones I know for sure.. they go like

marfoo'

huwa
huma
hum
hiya
huma
hunna
anta
antuma
antum
anti
antuma
antunna
ana
nahnu

Yeah and that extra alif is cause it is a question, I dunno which is better to use hal or a

Admin wrote:

bint is daughter not sister, and dhawaataa is tathniyah mu'annath as you said and it means "possessor of" so its meaning is "his two daughters are intelligent and beautiful"

and the word is "jamaal" not "jimaal", jamaal is beauty, jimaal is plural of jamal i.e. camels.

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Is it cause it's mudaaf mudaaf ilay that's why you don't have to make them feminine?

it's because of the word dhawaataa, it means "they are people of knowledge and beauty" or "they possess intelligence and beauty", both 'ilm and jamaal and mudhaaf to dhawaataa so they need not be mu'annath here.

oh. ^_^ Well I learnt before that jameel comes from jamal anyway cause camels were beautiful to the Arabs.

I don't get it, why isn't it jameel cause we learnt that was beautiful.. why jamaal.. Will the i'raab for ilm and jamaal be jar?

Since we've finished it all now, the first volume, (minus few exercises) I'm going over the English ones with my brother and them and it's not that confusing! Perhaps cause I've done urdu I know what the hard grammatical English words mean... in urdu it is for sure better, they give you extra information, noticed that from the first lesson already

you said throughout in some places that sarf doesn't affect the word, so nahw is gammar and in grammar there will be sarf so what's the sarf I'm learning.. the whole making a word past/future tense adding "aani" etc on.. is that sarf?

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ya Allah...

That's so much information, it's gone over my head.

Then i'm afraid this one will be even harder.

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"fi'l aur faa'il se milkar jumla fi'liyyah" - my teacher says that.

I know, that's why i said it.

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The mansoob ones is it like this:

You should forget about all of that, you're thinking along the wrong lines, let me explain it this way then.

Nahw is to do with the changing of the i'raab and haal of the last letter, sarf is to change the actual word itself.

A nahw example would be "zaydun, zaydan, zaydin", whereas a sarf one would be "nusrah, munaasara, istinsaar" etc, the nahw affects the i'raab of the word, whether it will be majroor or marfoo' etc, whereas the sarf changes the entire shape of the word.

So things like majroor, mansoob etc are all in the domain of nahw, so think of these dhamaa'ir from a nahw point of view and not a sarf changing of words point of view, which is what you are thinking it is.

You following me?

Now let me do those three again.

Majroor: that dhameer which is joined with a harfi jarr, and as you know, the law of huroofi jarr is that it makes the following word majroor, hence why these dhamaa'ir are called dhameer majroor, because they are in haalati jarr (you know these terms don't you?).

It's a totally nahw process.

And you know what the huroofi jarr are, min, ilaa, 'an, etc.

Now this is an advanced law which you are yet to learn, but i'll tell you it now so that you do not get confused with the above, there is a difference between majroor and maksoor (a letter with a kasrah), majroor is a state, it is possible for a word to be majroor and yet have a fathah on it, it's not necessary for a majroor word to be maksoor, but you should leave this law for the time being.

But to put it to you simply, a dhameer majroor is one who is in haalati jarr.

And to give you a little chart, i'll just use the word "laam" "for", understand the usage of the chart, and do not use it as a source to base other words upon (you'll see what i mean later when i explain the mansoob ones).

lahu = for him
lahumaa
lahum
lahaa
lahumaa
lahunna
laka
lakumaa
lakum
laki
lakumaa
lakunna
lee
lanaa

Marfoo': If you've understood the previous one then this one will be easy to understand, the marfoo' dhameer is the one where the dhameer is the doer, if i am hitting "dharabtu", then the faa'il (doer) is "i", i am doing the action, then that is a dhameer marfoo'.

the whole huwa humaa hum etc, and dharaba dharabaa dharaboo is all used with it.

But to put it very simply, a dhameer marfoo' is simply that dhameer who is the faa'il.

Mansoob: this will also be understood when you understand the first one, the mansoob dhameer is the one where the action is being done upon it, if i am being hit "dharabanee", then the maf'ool who the action is done upon is me, and huwa will be the doer, that is a dhameer mansoob.

Put simply, a dhameer mansoob is the dhameer that's a maf'ool.

This one is used with hu, naa etc i.e. dharabahu and dharabanaa, it is also used with the word "iyyaa" like in "iyyaaka na'budu" nahnu is the faa'il in that sentence which is in na'budu, ka is the maf'ool there in iyyaaka, but basically it's the same as the previous one.

And let me just add this as a final note, if you forget which one is which, then think of the marfoo' ones as if they're faa'ils in a sentence, think of the mansoob ones as the maf'ools, and think of the majroor ones as harfs (particles), understand how you would make tarkeeb of them had they been ordinary words, you know a faa'il will be marfoo', so a dhameer which is the doer in a sentence will be a dhameer marfoo', and a dhameer which is the maf'ool in a sentence will be a dhameer mansoob, and the dhameer which is joined with a harf or which indicates possession will be a dhameer majroor.

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Yeah and that extra alif is cause it is a question, I dunno which is better to use hal or a

They are synonyms, but they have their own places and so cannot always be used interchangeably.

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I don't get it, why isn't it jameel cause we learnt that was beautiful.. why jamaal.. Will the i'raab for ilm and jamaal be jar?

There's a difference, jameel is beautiful, jamaal is beauty.

A person possesses beauty, they don't don't possess beautiful, beautiful is a description of the persons beauty, you understand?

Yes they'll be jarr, dhawaataa 'ilmin wa jamaalin, but you won't pronounce the second tanween since it's the end of a sentence.

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you said throughout in some places that sarf doesn't affect the word, so nahw is gammar and in grammar there will be sarf so what's the sarf I'm learning.. the whole making a word past/future tense adding "aani" etc on.. is that sarf?

Yes that fa'ala yaf'alu fa'lan stuff is sarf, nahw is as i explained earlier to be "Nahw is to do with the changing of the i'raab and haal of the last letter" while sarf is "sarf is to change the actual word itself"

I did that today, I looked at it from a nahw point of view and I got it! Alhamdulillah. So for explaining it to me, I was making it harder and it's actually pretty simple. =/

Next is baabs but I already understand that kinda. But here's something I was confused about today

إنّ اللهَ لا يظلمُ أناّسَ شياً وَ لكن أناّس انفسَهم يظلمونَ

We were asked what kinda dhameer is that, and I said mansooba.. cause it says anfusahum and nasb is for maf'ool... but my teacher said it may be majroor.. but then I don't understand why it is anfusahum... I do get why it could be majroor.. but now I'm thinking doesn't it alter the meaning if it is maf'ool.. hmm.. cause it translates as 'un ka nafs ko' and that is madaaf mudaaf ilay..

Nisaa wrote:

I did that today, I looked at it from a nahw point of view and I got it! Alhamdulillah. So for explaining it to me, I was making it harder and it's actually pretty simple. =/

Next is baabs but I already understand that kinda. But here's something I was confused about today

إنّ اللهَ لا يظلمُ أناّسَ شياً وَ لكن أناّس انفسَهم يظلمونَ

We were asked what kinda dhameer is that, and I said mansooba.. cause it says anfusahum and nasb is for maf'ool... but my teacher said it may be majroor.. but then I don't understand why it is anfusahum... I do get why it could be majroor.. but now I'm thinking doesn't it alter the meaning if it is maf'ool.. hmm.. cause it translates as 'un ka nafs ko' and that is madaaf mudaaf ilay..

I'm glad you understand it.

That's a difficult example so it's natural that you wouldn't get it.

Remember my thread on ummah "Nahw laws" when i said anna (or i think i said 'an') makes the next word have a fathah on the end? Now the word "laakin" is a sister of anna, and it does the same change that anna does, so it goes like this.

laakin (harfi naasibah) changes the next word "an-naas" into "an-naasa", so now that has done its duty, then comes the second part, "anfusahum", that word is a taabi' of its matboo' which is "an-naasa", it's also called "badl" and "mubdal minhu", anyway a badl follows the harkah of its mubdal minhu, so the mubdal minhu here is an-naasa with has a fathah, so the badl takes on that same harkah, and that is why it is anfusahum instead of anfusihim.

Difficult isn't it?

it went over my head but it's okay we haven't done that yet.. so. when we do, perhaps I'll get it then

I feel a bit.. Okay, my problem is I can translate from Arabic but when I have to make sentences in Arabic I get confused.. how can I practice on that cause it makes me distressed. It's like, I should be able to do it by now.. and fast!

What's the difference between masdar and maada..

Is it that the masdar is the root word, and maada is the original letters? =s I dunno..

I asked my teacher what's difference between maada and mujarrad and she said mujarrad is often used for thulaathi af'aal.. and mujarrad is asl letters?