Baatil Barelwi Belief - Haazir Naazir

Haadir wa Naadir and Innovation

The concept of "Haadir" and "Naadir" is summed up in the following passage by Hadhrat Syed Ahmad Sa'eed Kazmi (rahmatullah 'alaih): "When the word Haazir-o-Naazir is used for the Prophet (Peace be upon him), it does not mean that the physical body of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) is everywhere and that he is present in front of everybody. This in fact means that as the soul exists in every part of the body, similarly, the dear Prophet (Peace be upon him) exists in every atom of the worlds. Based on that, the Prophet (Peace be upon him) arrives with his spirituality in many places at one time. Many times, the pious observe the beauty of the beautiful Prophet (Peace be upon him) in a state of wakefulness with their physical eyes".
(Taskeenul Khawatir fi Mas'alatil Haazir wan Naazir. Page 13, Maktabah-e-Haamidya, Lahore)

A very commonly disputed point amongst the Sunnis and the Wahabi and Deobandi followers is that of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) being referred to as being Haadir wa Naadir (Haazir-o-Naazir in Urdu). The Sunnis believe that this attribute of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) is proven from clear Qur'anic verses but the Wahabi and Deobandi sects do not accept this belief and brand the Sunnis as mushriks for upholding this creed.

When did this split begin? Was it disputed by the Sahaba? The Tabi'een? The Tab'e Tabi'een? Any of the Salaf-us-Saliheen? No! In no book of hadith or tarikh (history) will one find the mas'ala of Haadir wa Naadir being one that caused any friction, disagreement or dispute amongst any of the aforementioned groups of pious Muslims (May Allah be pleased with them all).

Even up until the middle of the 17th century, the jamhur (vast majority) of the ummah were of the belief that the creed that our Dear Prophet, Sayyidina Muhammad-ur-Rasoolullah (Peace be upon him) is Haadir wa Naadir could and should be held.

The pioneer of the science of hadith in the Indian subcontinent, Shaikh Abdul Haq Muhaddith-e-Dehlwi (May Allah be pleased with him) writes:

"Even though many differences have now appeared in the Muslim ummah, the scholars of all sects remain united in the belief that the Prophet of Allah (Peace be upon him) is physically alive in his blessed grave and he is Haadir wa Naadir upon the actions of his ummah. The Dear Prophet distributes blessings to all those who turn to him in need".(Maktoobaat (no. 18), Akhbar-ul-Akhyar page 155)

Shaikh Abdul Haq Dehlwi (May Allah be pleased with him) passed away in the year 1642 and up until this time, no group of Muslims held a belief against the Prophetic attribute of Haadir wa Naadir.

Hence, dear unbiased Muslim, which party of people will fall into the category of being from the mubtadi'een (innovators)? Those who believe Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) to be Haadir wa Naadir as was the belief of the whole ummah up until the 17th century or those people who brand such beliefs as shirk eventhough their new creed has only been around for a maximum of 350 years? What is 350 years compared to over 1400 years of Islamic thought?

May Allah guide the misguided and keep those who are guided upon the truth, Aameen!

This is one of the barelwis baatil beliefs, this article is written by a barelwi as a "refutation" to the "wahhabis" and "indian wahhabis".

Everrything about them is based upon lies.

I didn't post this for people to follow their baatil beliefs, rather i posted it so people can be aware of their deviance and not follow them in it.

Post No. 2 should be the first post. So people are not confused.

i edited the title instead

Bumped for Nisaa.

You see this is basically with haazir naazir is all about.

How does this affect the person's beliefs, is it a bid'ah.. or what is it if someone believes in it...

And what's this about people saying that rasoolullah is alive in Madinah.. I just read about how the Prophets are alive in their graves but not in how we know it, in the life of the barzakh, like the shuhadaa and he only gets the salaams because they angels convey them to him with the permission of Allah... but I am wondering what is the ruling of saying such things.. or believing it the human way, how you and me are alive..

Even for the shuhadaa because Allah says they are alive (not how we know it though?) so we would say he/she was a shaheed inshaAllah.. right?

as far as im aware, it alters the aqeedah of a person to a great extent, its greater than just bid'ah....like if a person holds such a belief, you should not even pray behind them...like that...i have read more on this but thats the basic jist of it. you should find more info on askimam and islamqa too, cus ive read it from there....

Na'am, someone else was saying same thing but like I've not met anyone with them beliefs nor do I know much about it honestly.. I shall have a search tomorrow. =)

I know quite a few people like that, they staunchly believe in it...they think we're all wrong, and anyone who doesnt agree is either Wahhabi/Najdi. They claim lots of hadeeth and classical literature for it....plus they also say they cant pray behind those with views against them....therefore, so many of them really do not pray in the Haramain...their Ulema even advocate that

I'll post some links for you inshaa'Allah, cus im in the midst of gathering info for a friend too, but bear with me...i have them all bookmarked on 4 diff computers so will take some time in getting it altogether

I don't get it, how can someone do that... How can they not know they're wrong? So they genuinely believe that they're correct, and everyone else (I'm guessing they're a minority) are wrong?

=s

And I will appreciate that you do that for me. =) I need something from a trusted scholar regarding their beliefs and how it affects their Islam..

because if youre indoctrinated with something from a young age, then you do follow it staunchly....especially when they are taught that others are wrong...and they rarely correct their ways, unless they actually go out and study outside of the 'brelwi' circle.

btw, have you read this thread? http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?256743-A-Dicussion-and-simple-refutation-of-the-brelwi-Aqeeda...By-Ag123

I kinda skimmed over some posts but it was a discussion.. so I dunno, I didn't read first few posts. I see it now and will read it. =)

nah, he began with info posts until it got slightly derailed

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How does this affect the person's beliefs, is it a bid'ah.. or what is it if someone believes in it...

It is very serious, and can even be kufr depending on the persons beliefs.

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Even for the shuhadaa because Allah says they are alive (not how we know it though?) so we would say he/she was a shaheed inshaAllah.. right?

It's another one of their baatil beliefs, and it too can become kufr if they believe that Rasoolullaah Sallallaahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallam is alive like us and did not pass away.

So people that say "RasooAllah is sleeping in Madinah" or stuff like that.. how to refute?

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It is very serious, and can even be kufr depending on the persons beliefs.

It depends on what they believe.. but laymans can't go round giving takfeer isn't it?

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So people that say "RasooAllah is sleeping in Madinah" or stuff like that.. how to refute? JazakAllahu khair

Before bothering to refute them, you should tell them they must bring their proof from the qur'aan and sunnah to prove it, and once they do that you can take it from there.

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It depends on what they believe.. but laymans can't go round giving takfeer isn't it?

A layman can also make takfeer if the kufr is apparent, but if it's obscured then he can't make takfeer.

Example: There's a man who's an outright mushrik, but he calls himself a Muslim, and you've seen him do shirk, so now if you deny his shirk and say oh no you can't do takfeer on him, that's wrong isn't it? I dunno how exactly to explain it but I read something about it one time either here or on ummah

Now if he was blatant about it, any Muslim would know what he's doing, but say someone like who believe this kinda stuff, you guys were saying sometimes it's close to kufr, what if you feel scared to do takfeer.. cause it falls back on you isn't it.. Or is that waswasa..

Or when someone mocks the deen.. what do you say to them.. We get angry and shocked but I feel scared for their imaan, and mine..

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Example: There's a man who's an outright mushrik, but he calls himself a Muslim, and you've seen him do shirk, so now if you deny his shirk and say oh no you can't do takfeer on him, that's wrong isn't it? I dunno how exactly to explain it but I read something about it one time either here or on ummah

If a person says that you cannot make takfeer on such a person after knowing of him committing shirk, then that person himself becomes a kaafir.

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Now if he was blatant about it, any Muslim would know what he's doing, but say someone like who believe this kinda stuff, you guys were saying sometimes it's close to kufr, what if you feel scared to do takfeer.. cause it falls back on you isn't it.. Or is that waswasa..

You see it comes down to whether you are certain that it's kufr or not, if you are certain then you can make takfeer, but if you're uncertain then you have to refrain.

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Or when someone mocks the deen.. what do you say to them.. We get angry and shocked but I feel scared for their imaan, and mine..

If a person mocks the deen then he leaves the fold of islaam, how you respond should be according to what you feel has more hikmah in, if the person is unaware that such a thing is kufr then you should explain to him that this here is kufr, but if he's an unislaamic modernist that's not interested in retracting his words then you can outrightly brand him a kaafir.

Yeah that's it, so is it that you HAVE to make takfeer?

I lack hikmah.. I know some people are so good with advise but I just.. =s I dunno.

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Yeah that's it, so is it that you HAVE to make takfeer?

You mean do you have to tell him he's a kaafir? No you don't have to, you must just know yourself that he's a kaafir, it's not a condition that you have to tell him he's a kaafir, just don't tell him that he's still a muslim.

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I lack hikmah.. I know some people are so good with advise but I just.. =s I dunno.

Tell me about it, i just tried giving advice to someone the other day, and all i managed to do was make him log off and leave.

Is it only 'takfeer' if it is uttered?

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Is it only 'takfeer' if it is uttered?

What do you mean?

Takfeer can be made with words deeds and in the heart, but people will only be certain that you're making takfeer if you say it verbally.

Okay so some believe that rasoolullah knew everything and that he can see everything...

That's wrong.. =s

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Okay so some believe that rasoolullah Sallallahu alayhi wa knew everything and that he Sallallahu alayhi wa can see everything...

That's wrong.. =s

Hence why they say haazir naazir.