Praying arms down

Salam

This may be the wrong madhab...unsure

However, I hear Sunnis pray with arms down....any proofs/ Hadith ?

WS

w/salaam!
i saw my shia friend praying with arms down!!!

I think malikis pray with the hands down.

Malikis keep their hands on the sides, it's called sadl.

I dont think jafari fiqh (shia fiqh) says you're supposed to keep your hands at the sides, that shia might just be confused.

The Shia Jafari's do keep there hands to the sides. I seen one pray ..

yup they dont tie there arms in all postures.... sadl in maaliks madhhab. maybe the shia's nicked it from him

Proof:To place the right arm on the left arm,and the command for it:"He used to place his right arm on his left arm"(Muslim&DawoodIt is also given in Irwa(352),and he used to say:"We the company of prophets have been commanded to hasten the breaking of the fast,to delay the mea before the fast,and to place our right arms on our left arms during prayer".(Ibn H
ibbaan&Diyaa with a Sahih isnaad)

Also,"He passed by a man who was praying and had placed his left arm on his right,so he pulled them apart and placed his right over his left".(Muslim&Nasaa'i).

"He used to place the right arm on the back of his left palm,wrist and forearm"(Abu Dawood Sahih isaad)"and he commanded his companions to do likewise(Maalik,Bukhari&Abu Awaanah) and (sometimes) he would grasp his left arm with his right".(Nasaa'i and Daaraqunti with a sahih isnaad.In this Hadith there is evidence that grasping is from the sunnah,and in the previous hadeeth that so is placing,so both are sunnah,As for the combination holding and placing,which later some of the Hanafis hold to be good,then that is an innovation,it's form as they say state is to place thye right hand on the left,holding the wrist with the little finger and the thumb and laying flat the remaining three fingers as described in Ibn Aabideen's footnores on Durr al-Mukhtaar(1/454).so do not be confused by what they say.

note[/b

To place them on the chest is what is proved in the sunnah and all that is contrary to it is either Da'eef(weak) ot totally baseless.In fact Imam Ishhaq ibn Raahawaih acted on this sunnah as Marwazi said in Masaail(p222):Ishaaq used to pray witr with us...he would raise his hands in qunoot,and make the qunoot before bowing,and place his hands on his breast or just under his breast".Similiar is the saying of Qaadi Iyaad al-Maaliki in Musaahabaat as-salah in his book al- Ilaam(p15 3rd edition Rabat)the right arm is to be placed on the back of the left on the upper part of the chest".Close to what Abdullah Ibn Ahmed ibn Hanabal related in his Masaa'il(p62)"I saw that when praying,my father placed his hands,one on the other above the navel".

This was taken from the works of Shiek Naser Al-Albani Rahimallah from the book [b]The Prophets Prayer Described

We should only study the different Madhabs when studying Shariah law as to look at the differnet evidences and proofs when applying to different subjects, but the proof comes from Quran and Sunnah even the Scholars used to say if i have said something out of context regarding eg hadith sahih then take the sahih as it is sound and truthful, but may Allah subahna wa ta'ala give them great rewards even if they make mistakes as they are only human.

but i am a hanafi...

Asalam Wa Alykum

The Blind following of a particular madhab
from the four madaahib is not obligatory nor is it recommended


And as for the madaahib [1] then they are the opinions of the people of knowledge and their understanding of some of the masaa’il (issues) and their deductions. And the following of these opinions and deductions and understandings was not made obligatory by Allaah and His Messenger on anyone. For verily in them is that which is correct and that which is wrong and is not exclusively correct except that which is established or confirmed upon the Messenger of Allaah . And much of what the Imaams chose as their opinion in a particular was changed by them after the truth was manifested to them. [2]

So with this whomsoever desires to enter the deen of Islaam and desires to be honored with Imaan then there is nothing upon him other than the testification that nothing is worthy of worship of Allaah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah and to establish the five prayer and to give the zakaah and to fast the month of Ramadaan and to make Hajj to the House if he is capable to do so.

And as for the following of a madhab from the madaahib or other than them then it is not obligatory nor is it recommended. And it is not upon a Muslim to necessitate oneself to a particular one from them, in fact the one who necessitates himself to a particular madhab from them then he is a fanatical blind follower who is in the wrong. And he is from amongst those who divided the religion and became groups, and indeed Allaah has prohibited division in the religion.

So Allaah says (which means):

"Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects), you (O Muhammad ) have no concern in them in the least." [Surah Al-An'am (The Cattle) Verse 159 ]

And He says (which means):

"and be not of AlMushrikun (the disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah, polytheists, idolaters, etc.). Of those who split up their religion , and became sects, [i.e. they invented new things in the religion (Bid'ah), and followed their vain desires], each sect rejoicing in that which is with it." [Surah Ar-Rum (The Romans) Verses 31 to 32 ]

So the deen of Islaam is One. There is no madhab or path which is obligatory to follow except the path of the Messenger of Allaah and his guidance. And Allaah says (which means):

"Say (O Muhammad ): "This is my way; I invite unto Allaah with sure knowledge, I and whosoever follows me (also must invite others to Allaah ) with sure knowledge. And Glorified and Exalted be Allaah. And I am not of the Mushrikun ." [Surah Yusuf (Joseph) Verse 108 ]

And disputes have increased among those who blindly follow without knowledge these madaahib. And Allaah says (which means):

"And obey Allaah and His Messenger, and do not dispute (with one another) lest you lose courage and your strength depart, and be patient. Surely, Allaah is with those who are As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.)." [Surah Al-Anfal (The Spoils of War) Verse 46 ]

And He orders unity and to firmly cling to His book.

"And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allah (i.e. this Qur'aan), and be not divided among yourselves." [Surah Aali Imran (The Family of Imran) Verse 103 ]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Footnotes:
[1] [Translators Footnote] pl. of madhab, Madhab: way, juristic school of thought
[2] The writer is establishing some known rules that are with the students of knowledge: The matters in the madhaahib are said upon opinions only and they are matters of deductions and they do not have with them a text and it is not waajib (mandatory) to follow them but it is permissible to follow them if one thinks them to be correct.
Author: Muhammad Sultan al-Ma’soomi.

It is better to follow the Quran and Sunnah,if we follow this inshaa allah we cannot go wrong,i personally do not follow a particular madhab,if you follow a madhab and it say's anything in contradiction to the sunnah then you must leave it, as the proof is in the Quran and Hadith,and Allah knows best.

ive heard this 1 thousand times and have studied the deen for 8 yrs. ive had the same arguement so many times it often leads to undertake unessescary hassle because my words fall on deaf ears..... im a hanafi, a follower of imam al-azam abu hanifa. thats the end...... dont wanna waste my breath. i read hanafi fiqh books like quduri, shar al-wiqayah, al-hidayah . perhaps you shoul try and read them too. you may be surprised. not everything you hear or read about is true , you should go to the text yourself.


can you tell me the definition of saheeh hadith, marfu' hadith, da'eef. mudraj hadith, hasan hadith according to imam tirmidhi, what happens when hasan and sahih comes together. who authorises wheter a hadith is sahih and wat happens when the critics argue with regards to a certain hadith, whose opinion do we take....

and also what happens if imam nawawi says a hadith is sahih and then shaikh albani says its da'eef then wat????

just wanna know

Hadeeth Sahih-A Hadith must meet the five crireria in order to be accepted according to Islamic Law as a source of legal ordinance.Ibn as Salah defined the Hadith Sahih as follows:A Hadith Sahih is one which has a continious isnad,made up of trustworthy narrations hich is found to be free from any irregularities or defects.

Maruf Hadith:Which is traced back to the prophet

Da'eef Hadith:1.The Hadith must not be excessivley weak,containing liars or fabricators.

2.It must be acknowledged as reliable evidence.

3.One does not suppose that by application it's strength is established.

sufiyan athThawri,Abdur Rahman ibn Mahdi and Ahmed ibn Hanbal used waek narrations.In fact Imam Ahmed preferred to use waek narrations to Qiyas.
The Hadith da'eef is also referred to in classical works as al-Khabar al-Mardood(rejected narrations)The inauthentic hadith is one in which the truth of the report is highly unlikely due to the loss of one or more conditions for the acceptance.Some da'eef Hadith's may be reclassified due to supportive factors while others are totally rejectedThe Inauthentic Hadith may be further subdivided into different sub-catagories based on which of the five criteria has not been met.

Causes of rejection.
1.A break in the chain of narration
2.A defect in the narrator himself.

Mudraj Hadith:Is Hadith with the works of the Rawi mixed into the Metn by mistake.

Hasan Hadith:Lingiustically the term means "Beautiful;fair,good".However,according to the science of Hadith evaluation,it refers to a hadith that is graded between Saheeh and da'eef(inauthentic).Imam Tirmidhi,who was the first to use the term hasan consistently in a technical way,defined it as a Hadith that does not have in it's chain a narrator suspected of lying,nor does it conflict with superior texts and it is transmitted vai more than one chain of similar strength.This defination is quite general and could include the Hadeeth saheeh lighayrih(Saheeh due to external corroboration).Or it could define dimention of the Hadith Hasan lighayrih(Hasan due to external corrobration).

With regard to your question who authorises whether the hadith is Sahih or not you have to look at the Usool Al- Hadith and the Science Of Hadith which you have just asked me to define Imam A-Albaani is the most prominant Hadith Scholar of our time specialising in Da'eef Hadith, they would look at the person who were narrating the hadith if they were known to be trustworthy or liars as they would trace it back or if th narrators were known by the prophet or the sahaba themselves.

Regards to your other question,the sheik like i said would look at the chain of narration through the science of Hadith as these Scholars hace spent there lives for the sake of Allah studying this ,and shiek Nasser has corrected Imam Nawawi on several hadiths sahih in which he has written down due to the chain of narrations here is some proof of Imam Nawawi's weak hadith Riyaadh Al-Saliheen(Gardens of the rightoues).
One of the works that Al- Nawawi's is most famous for is a collection of Quranic verses and Hadith arranged acording to the topic Riyaadh Al- Saliheen.Others have complied similar works but none have benn so popular and widley accepted as al-nawawi's.One of the aspects that sets this work apart from any other similar works is the rarity of weak Hadith it contains.Of the over 1900 hadith it contains,approximately only forty hadith are weak.Those weak Hadith are not greatly weak and they concern matters of support,such as Quarnic verses or authentic hadith.This overall characteristic of the work is not surprising given Nawawi's srong standing as a shcolar of Hadith.

And Brother please use the correct Islamic Adahb when replying to me why don't you get a little knowledge on how your Adahb should be when differing,for a brother who has been studying the deen for 8 years yet your knoweldge that you have gained due to manners is letting you down,What you are doing is ascribing yourself to a partiular group, following the Qu'ran and Sunnah is very clear on what we should be following,next you will be telling me that Riba is Halal,please when you reply to, me be nice it's not hard.

Although the work was very popular,it was not until Mohammed Ibn Allan Al-Sidiqi(d1057AH)that somepne wrote a commentary on the work.After him very few if anyone wrote anothe commentary on it until ,odern times.Recently two Saleem Al-Hailaali's Bahjat al-Naadhireen Sharh Riyaadh al-Saaliheen and the other is Mohamed ibn Uthaimeen's Sharh Riyaadh al-Saaliheen.

And brother the Hadith for the grasping of the arms in salat is sound,and you reject that them i would say fear Allah and fear his punishment,the prophet said:Pray as you have seen me pray"(Bukhari Muslim)He also gave good tidings to whever prayed like him that such a person has a covenant with Allah that he will enter him into the gardens.(Bukhari&Ahmed).

thanks Salam

Sister have you read any kitabs of hanafi fiqh

I have read About the Hanafis Fiqh Along with the other 3 Imams.

plz read quduri and hidaya and shar al-wiqayah or kanz or shar al-ma'ani al-aathar. read them for yourself. you seem intelligent enough to decide...

Bismillah

I have more evidence from the Fiqh us-Sunnah about the Placing the hand upon the left.This is a preffered act of the prayer.There are twenty hadith from eighteen companions and thier followers on this point.Said sahl ibn Sa'ad,"The people were ordered to place thier right hand o thier left forearm during prayers".Commenting on this,Abu Hamza says,"I do not know if he ascribed this to the prophet."This Hadith is related by al-Bukhari,Ahmed and Malik in his al-Muwatta.Al-Hafez maintains,"It's ruling is considered to be from the prophet as it is implied that the one who ordered them to do so was the prophet".He also related that the prophet said:"All prophets have been ordered to hasten the breaking of the fast and to delay the (pre-fast dawn)meal,and to place the right hand on our left during the prayer".
There ia also a Hadith from Jabir which says,"The prophet ,passed by a man praying with his left and over his right,and he pulled them away and put his right over his left".This is related by Ahmed and others.Evaluating it's chain,An Nawaw'i says:"It's chain is Sahih.Ibn Abdul-Barr holds,"Nothing has reached me different from that.It is the opinion of most companions and thier followers."Malik mentioned it in his al-Muwatta and states,"Malik never stopped doing it until he met Allah (please read).

The position of the hands

Al kamal ibn al-Hamam is of the opinion,"There is no authentic Hadith stating that one must place the hands under the chest or below the navel.According to the Hanifayah,the hands are to placed below the navel,and the Shafiyyah say below the chest.Ahmed has two narrations corresponding to these two opinions.The correct position is somewhere in the middle-to be equal".Observe at-Tirmidhi,"Knowledgeable companions,thier followers and those that come after them believed that one should put his right na dover the left during prayer,while some say above the navel and others say below the navel..."Nethertheless,there do exist Hadith that the prophet ,placed his hands on his chest.Reported Hulb at-Ta'i,"I saw the prophet praying with his right hand over his left upon his chest above the elbow".This is related by Ahmed and at-Tirmidhi who grades it Hasan.
Reported Wa'il ibn Hajr,"Once when i prayed with the prophet ,he placed his right hand over his left upon his chest".The report is recorded by Ibn huzaimah,who considers it as sahih,and by Abu Dawud and an-Nasa'i witht he wording,"Then he put his right hand over the back of his left wrist and forearm.


Inshaa allah brother i will have a read then i will get back to you inshaa allah,also brother i am aware of the different schools of thought,but when the Hadith is clear asnd the chain of narration is Sahih,then we surely cannot differ on the strong evidence supporting te chains of narration,i have studied the Fiqh of Imam Hanifah and his companions serve his school by transmitting its teachings,each of those companions was an Imam in thier own right.Abu Yusef respected Imam He was the cheif Qadi for the goverment fora long time.Mohammed ash-Shaybani was an Imam lie Abu Yusef in both fiqh of Hadith.He also related the Muwatta of Malik as he related teh fiqhof Iraq and he knew both. I have also read the argument from Maalik side regarding praying with the hands down but it is not sufficeint enough compared to the evidence aready given in the above Hadith as some say then it is sunnah to pray with the hands at the side but only in the superagoretory prayers and also that he suffered with his arms due to severe beatings but Allah knows best and we are here to please him.And to be quite honest i have enjoyed debating with you

me 2 i have learnt a lot... at first to be honest i thought u were just a normal salafi who doesnt know anything.... much to my surprise you proved my asssumptions wrong. anyway we have our differances, where you say you have the right to choose which hadith to follow, wheras i say that the imam did the job for me. anyway jazak allah khair.

anyway i forgot to tell you that i work in the british library, loads of islamic books there in all languages, and also a huge manuscript collection. very rare 1s too.
check out the catalogue on the website.