Shias Say the Qur'an is Incomplete

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Merciful.

Background

The Shia belief centers around the Imamah of Ali and the line of Imams after him. This belief is considered by the Shia to be one of the five Usool-e-Deen (fundamentals of religion), and in fact they claim it to be the most important of them. Allamah Muhammad Husayn al-Kashiful Ghita writes in his book “The Origin of Shi’ite Islam and its Principles” (Asl ash-Shi’ah wa Usuluha):

“Those matters which concern knowledge or wisdom, are called Usool-e-Deen (fundamentals of religion) and they are five: Tawheed, Nabuwwah, Imamah, Adl, and Ma’ad.”

(“The Origin of Shiite Islam and its Principles”, Part II: Fundamentals of the Religion, Part II: The Fundamentals of the Religion, Section The Fundamental Beliefs, p.218)

Wilayah (i.e. the designation of the Imam) is considered a more important pillar than prayer, fasting, zakat, or hajj:

“Islam is founded on five pillars: prayers (salat), zakat, hajj, fasting (sawm), and wilayah.” Zurarah asked the Imam: “Which one is the most important?” The Imam answered: “Wilayah is.”

(Wasa’il al-Shia, Vol.1, p.40; Usool al-Kafi, Vol.1, p.462)

Denial of this doctrine (i.e. Imamah of the twelve) is considered by the Shia to be Kufr (disbelief) and one of the reasons that the Sunnis will be damned to eternal Hellfire in the next life. Shaykh Mufid declared in no uncertain terms:

Quote :

Shaykh Mufid says
““اتفقت الامامية على أن من أنكر إمامة أحد من الائمة وجحد ما أوجبه الله تعالى له من فرض الطاعة فهو كافر ضال مستحق للخلود في النار”

Translation: “The Imamiyyah [Shia] are in agreement (’Ijma) that the one who rejects the Imamah of one Imam and rejects the obedience to them which Allah ordered is a misguided Kaffir deserving to remain in Hell-Fire forever.”

source: http://www.al-shia.com/html/ara/books/behar23/a39.html”

And yet, despite the overriding importance of this doctrine, we find absolutely no mention of the Imamah of the twelve in the Quran. None of the twelve Imams are mentioned in the Quran, nor is the doctrine even alluded to. How is it then that the central doctrine of the Shia cannot be found in the central book of the Muslims, i.e. the Quran? In the early times of Islam, this was the question that the Sunnis would ask the Shias. To this, the classical Shias responded by accusing the Prophet’s Companions (the Sahabah) of tampering the Quran, claiming that the Sahabah had removed entire verses and chapters from the Quran, including the Surah al-Wilayah which declared the Imamah of Ali ibn Abi Talib. This was the Shia belief of Tahreef (tampering/corruption) whereby they claimed that the present Quran we have today was incomplete and the complete Quran was hidden away with their Imam Mehdi who would reveal it at the End of Times.

This belief of the Shia was a direct violation of the Quranic verses which clearly said that (1) the Quran is complete and (2) that Allah would protect it from corruption. This belief that the current Quran was incomplete was of course considered by the mainstream Muslims to be Kufr (disbelief) and the Sunnis thereby declared the Shias to be apostates to be executed for grand heresy. And this was when the Shias invoked another one of their blasphemous beliefs, i.e. Taqiyyah. The Shia Maraje’ (top scholars) agreed that the belief that the Quran is incomplete would be too dangerous a position to pronounce publicly, and that it would threaten the very existence of the Shia. They feared that the Shias would be executed by the state on charges of grand heresy, and it was thus that for thousands of years the Shias would publicly deny that they believed that the current Quran with us today was incomplete.

And yet, despite this denial, the belief–that the current Quran was incomplete–persisted in their books. Even though the Shia scholarship hid this belief from their own awwam (masses), they themselves held onto it, and today we find this belief of Tahreef in many of their classical books. It remains a belief held by the Grand Ayatollahs of Shi’ism, but something which they do not declare publicly. The Shia propagandist has become so adept at denying the very existence of this belief that he has successfully fooled the Muslim masses. Most Sunni laypersons today do not believe us when we warn them of the Shia belief, and instead they are fooled by the Taqiyyah of the Shias. And yet, all the experts on Shi’ism know the truth, and we continue to expose them and reveal their true beliefs, hidden under the cloak of Taqiyyah.

Answering-Ansar’s Guru: Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq

One of the most popular Shia propaganda sites, Answering-Ansar, has led the charge in denying the belief in Tahreef. The Answering-Ansar website has become the flagship of the Shia propaganda juggernaut in the English language. How many dozens of Sunni laypersons have been led astray by their half-quotes, misquotes, and blatant lies? So it is today that we expose Answering-Ansar and reveal their true colors, and warn the mainstream Muslims of what lies underneath the facade. It is our sincere hope that this will once and for all convince those ignorant Sunnis who call to unity with the Shias, who refer to them as fellow Muslims, and who say such silly things as “the Shia only differ with us on very minor things.” No, these Shia scholars say that our Quran is incomplete and not enough, and they are on the same position as the Qadianis! In fact, not even the Qadianis dared to utter such things against the Quran; we will see how the Shias have gone so far as to say that the real Quran has a verse in it in which the name of Pakistan is mentioned. This is a claim that not even the leader of the Qadianis made.

The Answering-Ansar website was inspired by the Shia scholar, Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq. He was a contemporary scholar who lived in Pakistan and preached throughout the 1980s and 1990s. It was Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq who was a heavy influence on Answering-Ansar’s work, and for all intents and purposes, he is seen by them as their guru. Answering-Ansar has spent a lot of its time translating his works. Let us read a few quotes from Answering-Ansar’s website wherein they praise the Allamah and detail their relationship with him:

Quote :

Answering-Ansar says
“These one hundred questions are from the pen of Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq, a name that needs no introduction for Urdu readers. A former Sunni scholar that converted to Shi’a Islam in the late 1960’s, he dedicated his entire life to defending the path of truth. Author of over thirty books, the vast bulk of his works were rebuttals to Nasibi texts attacking the Shi’a, and he managed to silence many leading lights of Mu’awiya’s cause, such as Dost Muhammad Qurayshi and Qadhi Mazhar Husayn. A continual thorn in the flabby sides of the Nasibi, the inability of the Marwani Mullah’s to refute his books, led to them seeking to ban his books through Court on the grounds that they constituted ‘disrespect of the Sahaba’. Despite such efforts, he continued his mission undeterred by Nasibi hate mail and death threats. Some of his most notable books include Furu-e-Deen, wherein he presented one thousand questions for the Ahl’ul Sunnah Ulema to refute and Chodha Masalai (replies to 14 questions typically raised against the Shi’a). A great orator as well as a prolific writer thousands of people in Pakistan converted to the path of truth, through him.

Unfortunately this fact, coupled with the spectacular inability of the Nasibi to refute his books, made him a direct target, and they silenced him in the only way that followers of Mu’awiya can, by fatally shooting him in Lahore in the mid nineties. Despite this tragedy his memory lives on, his writings continue to act as a huge source of inspiration and guidance for the Shi’a, and the Answering-Ansar.org team have been heavily influenced by his excellent texts.

These questions form the second portion of Abdul Kareem Mushtaq’s book, Usul-e-Deen. Although we have translated this book, it was felt that these one hundred questions are best placed as a separate document under the challenge section. Whilst the Allamah had cited Urdu editions of books, we changed the text, referring to English editions, to ensure that these references can be located more easily.

May Allah (swt) reward Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq for his efforts and grant him Paradise with the Imams (as). May his legacy (his books) continue to act as source of guidance for us all. May Allah (swt) also accept our intention, and bless Prophet Muhammad and his purified family.
Illahi Ameen.

source: http://www.answering-ansar.org/challenges/100questions/en/index.php

(Note: It should be known that when the Shias say the word “Nasibis”, then they mean us Sunnis. Is it any wonder that these rejectors of the Quran have any basis to attack the rightly guided Ahlus Sunnah, and have the gall to refer to us as “Nasibis”?)

We urge our readers to save screen-shots of Answering-Ansar lest they resort to their traditional strategy of making these articles disappear, all in the time-honored tradition of Taqiyyah.

Elsewhere, Answering-Ansar says:

Quote :

Answering-Ansar says
“Abdul Kareem Mushtaq proved himself a prolific writer and wrote at least 40 other books that refuted all the lies churned out by the Nasibi propaganda machine. He was responsible for converting scores of people to Shi’aism and was his achievements will always remain in our minds. Whilst the followers of Mu’awiya sought to silence him by banning some of his books and then killing him, the writings of this great martyr are still readily available in the Indian Subcontinent and continue to bring people to the path of truth. We pray that his wonderful book act as a means of approach in the next world, and that Allah (swt) grants him Paradise in the company of the Ahl’ul bayt (as) – Ameen..

source: http://www.answering-ansar.org/fiqh/usool_al_deen/en/index.php

One of the famous books written by Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq is “Hazaar Tumhari Dus Hamari”, a book in which the Allamah attempts to refute Sunni allegations and give many replies to the Sunnis. We have taken the liberty of opening this book, considered by the Shia to be a masterpiece work. Let us now expose the beliefs of this Allamah, and show to the world what these people believe! Let us unmask Answering-Ansar and shatter their reputation. Let us warn and advise those who believe in the Quran, who believe that the Quran is complete and sufficient for the Muslims.

When we open up the Allamah’s book and turn to pages 553-554, then we find that the Allamah claims that the Quran we have today with us (i.e. the Quran in its present form) is incomplete and insufficient. He says that the Shia belief is that the complete Quran is not with us but it is with Imam Mehdi who will return at the End of Times to reveal it. The Allamah then explains why our current Quran is incomplete and insufficient, claiming that the complete Quran with Imam Mehdi meanwhile has everything in it, including the name of Pakistan! Subhan-Allah, do we not see what heretics the Shias are; this is that sect which claims that the real Quran has the name of Pakistan in it! Then finally, Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq attacks the Sunnis for not believing in this complete Quran, and he accuses the Sunnis of only believing in the incomplete Quran (i.e. the present Quran) and not the invisible one with Imam Mehdi.

We are afraid that this is a blow that Answering-Ansar cannot recover from! Let us proceed forth and expose them. Without further ado, we present to the reader the words of Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq, the guru of Answering-Ansar:







Scan and Translation Provided Courtesy of A. Ansari

Translation

Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq says: “They (Shias) also accept this (present Quran) as the Word of Allah, whereas you (Sunnis) only accept that (Quran) which is present and deny the one that is absent. So whose Quran is intact: yours or ours?”

(Sunni) Objection 874:

“In Tafseer Safi, (you Shias claim that) Hadrat Umar asks Hadrat Ali: do you also know when the real Quran will be revealed? Hadrat Ali said: Yes, when from my children, Imam Mehdi will rise, he will present that Quran. (Tafseer Safi, 10/33) So from this, we find out that Hadrat Mehdi’s Quran is one thing and our present Quran is another; therefore, the one (Quran) that you (Shias) believe in is not present and the one that is present you don’t believe in it!”

Answer 874 (by Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq):

No doubt the Quran that is with Imam Mehdi is complete. It has in it all Mansukh verses as well as the present verses in the same order they were revealed and all explanatory notes and explanations are present in it. It has the complete interpretation of the Prophet. It has in it all the issues of past, present and future. And in that complete book everything wet or dry is mentioned in it. And you people (Sunnis) don’t believe in that properly ordered Quran and only believe in this present Quran which according to you has lost a large part of it. That means that your (Sunni) belief is weak, whereas we (Shias) believe in that complete Quran which was never separated from the Ahlel Bayt.

That is why in the Times of Justice (i.e. the End of Times) this Quran would appear and will defeat falsehood, and it will prove Allah’s Promise that this Quran has explanations of everything dry and wet in it and then not even any impure person can corrupt it. But only the pure can touch it. When Imam (Mehdi) will reveal this Quran to the world, falsehood will vanish from this world and Truth will rule.

The Holy Quran we have now with us (i.e. the present Quran) contains verses of that same Quran (that is with Imam Mehdi) but its order of verses is not the same, and it also does not contain the explanations given by the Prophet. When we accept the present Quran as the Word of Allah, then how can you doubt our belief? The weakness of belief is present in your (Sunni) religion who only believe the present Quran to be enough, and don’t believe in that part which is invisible. However, they admit that a large part of the Quran went wasted but they don’t believe this lost part as the Word of Allah, but rather by denying it, they (the Sunnis) believe in a weak Quran.

Our belief is on both the visible (verses) and invisible (verses). So we (Shias) are complete in beliefs, whereas you (Sunnis) believe in the visible (verses), and deny the invisible (verses). That is why you (Sunnis) are incomplete in faith when you proclaim that you believe in the total Quran which is the present Quran.

Even the claim of Quran is that it has everything dry or wet mentioned in it, whereas in the total Quran in which you (Sunnis) believe in (i.e the present Quran), you cannot find the mention of the existence of Pakistan in it, but the total Quran in which we believe in, it has everything of the past and the future mentioned in it. And that complete Quran is present under the protection of a guardian in this world (i.e. Imam Mehdi) which impure people cannot corrupt.

The situation of your Quran’s protection is such that every pure or impure person in whatever condition can touch it. There exists the possibility of mistakes and errors in its manuscript. You cannot even show the name of the republic of Pakistan in it, whereas our claim is that the manuscript of the Holy Quran is safe under the guardianship of our Imam (Mehdi). It has all those things which have happened (in the past) or will happen (in the future). Hence, our belief is complete and your belief is faulty because you believe in the partial Word of Allah and deny the rest of it, whereas we are the believers of both the partial and total Word of Allah.

(“Hazaar Tumhari Dus Hamari”, by Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq, p.553-554)

What more can we say? The Shias say that our present Quran is not complete nor is it enough for the believers. Meanwhile, their Shia Quran with Imam Mehdi has all things in it, dry and wet, past and future. It is a much better book than our present day Quran! The Allamah refers to our present day Quran as a “weak Quran”. And let us not forget to mention that their Shia Quran cannot be corrupted like our present Quran can be; notice his reference to the Sahabah: “not even any impure person can corrupt it”, by which he means to imply that the “impure” Sahabah cannot tamper it.

Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq’s assertion that the complete Quran with Imam Mehdi contains the name of Pakistan would be humorous if it were not outright blasphemous. Do the Shia scholars think that the Quran is some sort of encyclopedia or world almanac with an endless list of pointless facts and figures? Does the Quran of the Shia also contain information about who won the world cup in soccer, or if the Pakistani team beat the Indian team in cricket? How many volumes is this Quran? Surely there is not enough paper in the world to write such a voluminous book that contains every single pointless fact from the past and future! How are the Muslims who live in that time (i.e. the Times of Justice) supposed to read it all? Today, we read the Quran at least once during Ramadan; imagine how many lifetimes would be needed to read the Quran of the Shia! It will take a few industrial trucks to ship even one copy of this book. If this book is currently with the Shia Mehdi, then surely we could detect where he is simply by satellite image: we would only need to look for that large book that would be more visible than the Great Wall of China. What an utter mockery of our noble book! It is about time for the Shia laypersons to admit how utterly ludicrous the beliefs of their religion are. That website that they so strongly support (Answering-Ansar) is inspired by heretics. We can only imagine Answering-Ansar’s team running around right now trying to do damage control, and thinking of ways to spin the story. Surely there is now panic in their camp, and they are utterly exposed for all to see.

Conclusion

We urge the open-minded truth-seekers from amongst the Shia awwam (masses) to reject the heretical belief of Shi’ism, and to instead embrace true Islam. We are Muslims and we proclaim loudly and clearly that our Quran is complete and it is sufficient for all guidance. Nothing is missing from it; what we have in our hands (i.e. the present Quran) is the guide for all time. O Shia, ponder: how is it that Allah would deny the complete Quran to humanity for thousands of years? If the Quran of Imam Mehdi would bring the Truth and vanquish falsehood, then why did Allah deny it to the people for thousands of years, when He Himself promised to give the Quran as a guide to the people? What function is a holy book that is incomplete, and what use is a book that is not accessible to us? The Shias say that the complete Quran is not present, and the one that is present is not complete!

Allah says in the Quran that the Book was sent as a guide for humanity and through it we will be guided, and yet the Shia scholars claim that it is incomplete and only their complete version will bring the Truth and destroy falsehood. Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq repeatedly says that their Quran with Imam Mehdi “would appear (in the Times of Justice) and will defeat falsehood”. But we Muslims say that this Quran–the one we have in our hands–was already sent down to do that! Allah says about the Quran:

“The truth has come, and falsehood has vanished!”

(Quran, 17:81)

Yet, Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq claims: “When Imam (Mehdi) will reveal this Quran to the world, falsehood will vanish from this world and Truth will rule.” But our Quran–the present day Quran of the Muslims–says quite clearly that the truth has already come! Why did not Allah say clearly in the Quran that “the truth will come with Imam Mehdi”? Instead, Allah said that the truth has come. Indeed, we true Muslims believe that the entire Truth was brought by Prophet Muhammad, whereas the Shias accuse the Prophet of being a failure, and they place their Imam Mehdi over and above the Prophet, by claiming that the Imam Mehdi will succeed in delivering the complete message whereas the Prophet only succeeded in delivering the partial Message.

Did not Allah say in the Quran:

“O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don’t do it, you have not delivered His message (at all)!”

(Quran 5:67)

The Quran repeatedly says that the duty of the Messenger was to deliver the Message, so how is it then that the Shia accuse him of failing in this task and they say that Imam Mehdi will succeed in it?

Lastly, we would like to reflect on the Words of Allah, in which He says:

“The Word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice.”

(Quran, 6:115)

Allah did not say that the Word of your Lord is partial or incomplete, or that the rest would come later. Rather, Allah said that the Word of your Lord is complete. He did not say will be completed, but rather stated emphatically that it had been completed and perfected. Allah says:

“Today I have perfected your religion and completed My favor upon you.”

(Quran 5:3)

The Book of Allah was perfected back then, and to claim otherwise is to condemn the Quran, the holy book of the Muslims, and the center of our religion. The reason that the Shia scholars need to make such claims about the incompleteness of the Quran is simply because their Shia doctrines cannot be found in the Quran. In the words of one brother who converted to true Islam from Shi’ism: “I could not find Shi’ism in the Quran!” This absence of Shi’ism from the Quran is what propelled the classical scholars of the Shia to claim that the Quran was incomplete, and this belief persists to this day, shielded from public view by the curtain of Taqiyyah.

Article By: Ibn al-Hashimi, www.ahlelbayt.com

Source: http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/tahreef/mushtaq

bro abu musab - will you please translate the following verses [31-32] from surah al raum?

مُنِيبِينَ إِلَيْهِ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا كُلُّ حِزْبٍ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ فَرِحُونَ

[what is the literal meaning of 'shia' by the way?]

Quote :

None of the twelve Imams are mentioned in the Quran, nor is the doctrine even alluded to. How is it then that the central doctrine of the Shia cannot be found in the central book of the Muslims, i.e. the Quran?

i posed an exact Q to my shia friend yesterday, and she promised she'll get back to me with sources adn all, the following's what she emailed me today:

WHY THE NAMES OF THE IMAMS DO
NOT APPEAR IN THE HOLY QUR'AN

First, this divine book is concise. It contains many general principles but few details, which have been left for the chief commentator, the Holy Prophet, to explain. Allah says: "And whatever the Apostle gives you, accept it; and from whatever he forbids you, keep back." (59:7)

Because the names and numbers of the twelve Imams are not mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, some people do not accept them. But on that basis they should reject their own caliphs since no verse of the Holy Qur'an makes any mention of their caliphs, except Ali Bin Abi Talib, or of the Umayyad or Abbasid caliphs, or of the authority vested in the Community to elect a caliph by consensus.


Second, if it is necessary to reject anything which is not clearly stated in the Holy Qur'an, then you should reject many of the methods of our worship since there is no mention of their details in the Holy Qur'an.

about why instead of 5 they offer 3? my friend said something like...'by the time we pray zuhr, it's asr..so we pray them together...' > makes sense? to me, it didn't - and the following's what she sent:

THERE IS NO MENTION OF UNITS (RAK'ATS)
OF PRAYERS IN THE HOLY QUR'AN

The ritual prayer is perhaps the central act of worship in a Muslim's life. The Holy Prophet emphasized its performance. He said: "The ritual prayer is the pillar and protector of religion. If the ritual prayer is accepted, all other religious performances will be accepted. If it is rejected, all other religious performances will also be rejected."


Of course, there is no mention in the Holy Qur'an of the number of units (rak'ats) to be performed for each prayer or any of the other specific details regarding how the prayers are to be performed. Does this mean that we should abandon the prayers? The Holy Qur'an simply says: "Establish salat (prayer). There are no details distinguishing required from optional acts. These were explained by the Holy Prophet.


In the same way other commands have been stated in the Holy Qur'an in principle only. Their details, conditions and relevant instructions were explained by the Holy Prophet. Similarly, concerning the Imamate and caliphate, the Holy Qur'an says only: "Obey Allah and obey the Prophet and those in authority among you." And we are bound to follow the Holy Prophet's order in this regard in the same way we follow his instructions with regard to the details of the ritual prayers.

i also asked her why they add Ali -radiAlalhu anhu- is friend of Allah in the shahadah, but i didn't recieve an answer to this Q of mine

they are like basic of Qs > what's your belief? how/ why do you pray? who do you follow? etc...but they can't seem to bring any concrete proof to back up their 'claims' and how can they? when they've deviated from the Truth

am reminded of a phrase in urdu, jhoot ke pao nahi hoote
[am bad at translating but the phrase literally means >> a lie has no legs]

is there any grain of truth in the following?


NAMES OF THE TWELVE IMAMS AND THEIR NUMBER

(1) Sheikh Sulayman Balkhi Hanafi in his Yanabiu'l-Mawadda, ch.76, reports from Fara'idu's-Simtain of Hamwaini, who reports from Mujahid, who reports from Ibn Abbas, that a Jew named Na'thal came to the Holy Prophet and asked him questions about Tawhid (Unity of Allah). The Holy Prophet answered his questions and the Jew embraced Islam. Then he said: "O Holy Prophet, every prophet had a wasi (vicegerent). Our Prophet, Moses Bin Imran, made a will for Yusha Bin Nun. Please tell me who is your wasi?" The Holy Prophet said: "My vicegerent is Ali Bin Abi Talib; after him are Hasan, and Husain and after them are nine Imams, who are the successive descendants of Husain."

Na'thal asked the Holy Prophet the names of those Imams. The Holy Prophet said: "After Husain, his son, Ali, will be the Imam; after him his son, Muhammad; after him his son, Ja'far; after him his son Musa; after him his son, Ali; after him his son, Muhammad; after him his son, Hasan; after him his son, Muhammad Mahdi will be the last Imam. There will be twelve Imams."


In addition to the names of the nine Imams, this hadith further states that each would succeed as Imam after his father. Na'thal made further inquiries, and the Holy Prophet described the manner of death of each Imam.


Then Na'thal said, "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that you are His Holy Prophet. I bear witness that these twelve holy Imams are your vicegerents after you. What you have said is exactly what is recorded in our books and in the will of Moses."


Then the Holy Prophet said: "Paradise is for him who loves them and obeys them, and Hell is for him who is hostile to them and opposes them."


Na'thal then recited some couplets to the effect that "May Allah, the Exalted, shower His blessings upon you, chosen Prophet and pride of the Bani Hashim. Allah has guided us by means of you and the twelve holy men whom you have named. Certainly Allah has purified them and preserved them from impurity. He who loves them is successful. He who hates them is the loser. The last of the Imams will quench the thirst of the thirsty. He is the one the people will wait for. Prophet of Allah, your progeny is a blessing for me and for all the believers. Those who turn away from them will soon be thrown into Hell."


(2) The great scholar, Sheikh Sulayman Balkhi, in his Yanabiu'l-Mawadda, ch. 76 reports from Manaqib of Khawarizmi, who reports from Wathila Bin Asqa' Bin Qarkhab, who reports Jabir Bin Abdullah Ansari; and also Abu'l-Fazl Shaibani and he from Muhammad Bin Abdullah Bin Ibrahim Shafi'i, who reports Jabir Ansari (one of the chief companions of the Prophet) as saying: "Jundal Bin Junadab Bin Jubair, a Jew, came to the Holy Prophet and asked him about Tawhid. After hearing his reply, the man became a Muslim. He said that on the previous night he had seen Moses in a dream telling him: 'Embrace Islam at the hands of the last of the prophets, Muhammad, and attach yourself to the vicegerents after him.' He thanked Allah for the blessing of Islam. He then asked the Holy Prophet to tell him the names of his vicegerents. The Holy Prophet began by saying: 'My vicegerents are twelve in number.'


The man said that he had seen this fact in the Torah. He asked the Prophet to tell him their names, and the Prophet said: 'The first of them is the chief of the vicegerents, the father of the Imams, Ali. Then follow his two sons - Hasan and Husain. You shall see these three. When you reach the last stage of your life, Imam Zainu'l-Abidin will be born, and the last thing that you have of this world shall be milk. So cling to them so that ignorance may not mislead you.'


The man said that he had seen in the Torah and in other scriptures the names of Ali, Hasan, and Husain as Elias, Shabbar, and Shabbir. He asked the Holy Prophet to tell him the names of the other Imams.


Then the Holy Prophet named the remaining nine Imams with their epithets and added: 'The last of them, Muhammad Mahdi, will live, but disappear. He will appear later and will fill the world with justice and equity, since it will have degenerated into injustice and tyranny. Verily, Paradise is for those who show patience during the time of his occultation. Paradise is for those who are firm in their love for him. These are they whom Allah Almighty has praised in the Holy Qur'an and for whom the Holy Qur'an is a 'guide for those who guard (against evil). Those who believe in the unseen.' Also He says 'These are Allah's party: now surely the party of Allah are the successful ones.'" (58:22)

Ok I haven't read all of what was said above, but some Shia's believe that the Quran is incomplete, and that a complete version of the Quran was recorded and kept with Fatima RA. They also say that the Mahdhi will return with this 'Quran' towards the end of time and then everyone will know that the Shia's were right *rolleyes*.

There are also some that believe that the Mahdhi was the Son of Ali RA and will come out from a cave towards the end of time. There is a good series by Yasir Qadhi on the Mahdhi about this. The last CD is about sects and shia's.

Check it out.

umm.qasym wrote:

bro abu musab - will you please translate the following verses [31-32] from surah al raum?

مُنِيبِينَ إِلَيْهِ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا كُلُّ حِزْبٍ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ فَرِحُونَ

[what is the literal meaning of 'shia' by the way?]

Turn towards him and fear him and establish salaah and do not be from the mushrikeen.

Those who break up their religion and become sects, each group rejoicing with what they have by them.

Shia means group/sect/party/etc and it also means follower/adherant/etc.

Quote :

is there any grain of truth in the following?

It's just a pack of lies.

Quote :

they should reject their own caliphs since no verse of the Holy Qur'an makes any mention of their caliphs, except Ali Bin Abi Talib

Just what you can expect from a dumb shia, the Qur'an mentions all 4 khalifahs in one ayah.

What ayah is that bro?

The last ayah of surah fath,


مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاءُ عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاءُ بَيْنَهُمْ تَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعًا سُجَّدًا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلا مِنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانًا سِيمَاهُمْ فِي وُجُوهِهِمْ مِنْ أَثَرِ السُّجُودِ ذَلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِي الإنْجِيلِ كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَهُ فَآزَرَهُ فَاسْتَغْلَظَ فَاسْتَوَى عَلَى سُوقِهِ يُعْجِبُ الزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ الْكُفَّارَ وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ مِنْهُمْ مَغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا

Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him [Hadhrat Abu Bakr Radhiallahu Ahhu] are strong against Unbelievers [Hadhrat Umar Radhiallahu Anhu], (but) compassionate amongst each other [Hadhrat Uthmaan Radhiallahu Ahu]. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate [Hadhrat Ali Radhiallahu Anhu] themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.

And in case anyone intends on asking for a reference, you can find it in tafsir ibn abbaas (radhiallahu Anhu).

jazakAllah khair bro

Admin wrote:

umm.qasym wrote:

bro abu musab - will you please translate the following verses [31-32] from surah al raum?

مُنِيبِينَ إِلَيْهِ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا كُلُّ حِزْبٍ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ فَرِحُونَ

[what is the literal meaning of 'shia' by the way?]

Turn towards him and fear him and establish salaah and do not be from the mushrikeen.

Those who break up their religion and become sects, each group rejoicing with what they have by them.

Shia means group/sect/party/etc and it also means follower/adherant/etc.

Admin wrote:

The last ayah of surah fath,


مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاءُ عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاءُ بَيْنَهُمْ تَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعًا سُجَّدًا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلا مِنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانًا سِيمَاهُمْ فِي وُجُوهِهِمْ مِنْ أَثَرِ السُّجُودِ ذَلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِي الإنْجِيلِ كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَهُ فَآزَرَهُ فَاسْتَغْلَظَ فَاسْتَوَى عَلَى سُوقِهِ يُعْجِبُ الزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ الْكُفَّارَ وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ مِنْهُمْ مَغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا

Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him [Hadhrat Abu Bakr Radhiallahu Ahhu] are strong against Unbelievers [Hadhrat Umar Radhiallahu Anhu], (but) compassionate amongst each other [Hadhrat Uthmaan Radhiallahu Ahu]. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate [Hadhrat Ali Radhiallahu Anhu] themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.

Salaams...all i can say is that shias are really funny...n when i say funny i dnt mean hahaha funny, newayz half the stuff iv heard frm them is outrageous...they claim to not rely on hadith and the Quran because they are delivered by men and so in their opinion they are filled with errors and misconceptions ...when in fact all their theories are based on lies and desires of men. Subhanallah may we never be misguided and leave our precious sunnah Ameen