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Imaam al-Shaafi’i Rahimahullaah said: ‘There is nobody except that he has someone who loves him and someone who hates him. So if that’s the case, let a person be with the people who are obedient to Allaah `Azza Wa Jall.’

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 Shirk

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Nisaa
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PostSubject: Shirk   Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:29 am

aswrwb

Crossing fingers/touching wood all that malarkey... is it minor shirk?

How come so less people know about it.. and how do you even tell someone off for doing it.

I seriously think we should be taught aqeedah first.
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PostSubject: Re: Shirk   Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:20 pm

wswrwb

It's haraam as a general ruling for people that are ignorant, and the ruling will intensify if a person uses it while knowing its meaning or believing in it.

It's not a wonder that people don't know much about it, because people are happy just being led as cows, and to imitate like monkeys.

If people stopped imitating the kuffaar then all of that would automatically disappear.

Indeed, i want to write a comprehensive book on 'aqeedah In-Shaa Allaah, do you know there are many people are aren't aware that it's haraam to take an oath by other than Allaah?

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Abu Hafsa
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PostSubject: Re: Shirk   Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:26 pm

Aqeedah is very important but unfortunately muslims today study secular education.
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PostSubject: Re: Shirk   Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:46 am

I think I was slightly annoyed over something when I posted that. =o I was being arrogant, least people are still teaching Islam, what am I doing? =/

I know many people don't get chances to learn about stuff like this. Alhamdulillah that I have been given a chance.

If the general ruling is haraam then it won't get counted as shirk so if they do it, it's not shirk for them? But for those that knowingly do it.. then it's different?

I don't know much, but I do know everyone is born on the fitrah so when something wrong takes place, you should know, like every Muslim feels it so I don't really have to describe it. Is it possible that this ability that Allah has placed in us to decipher right and wrong regardless our knowledge, can get masked? How do we make sure it's always clean and rust free? What can we do?

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PostSubject: Re: Shirk   Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:02 am

this relates slightly to the what you just said:

Quote :
Thus, according to the Ethical philosophy of Islam, the knowledge of good and evil or in other words the standard of distinguishing good from evil is a part of the sapiential sense [5] of man. This sapiential sense includes, besides many other concepts, moral concepts like justice, truthfulness, honesty, helping the weak, freedom in one's personal matters etc. It is quite possible though, that there is a difference in the application of these concepts in practical life situations, yet the concepts themselves have never been questioned and are, and have mostly remained, universally accepted. It is for this reason that ethical values like justice, honesty, trustworthiness and truthfulness etc. have never even been questioned philosophically, even if there is a considerable practical deviation from these values or a huge difference in the practical application of these values.

It is precisely for the stated reason that man, on the Day of Judgment, shall have no excuse for any voluntary and conscious deviation from these values in his life, even if he has remained ignorant of the teachings of any prophet. Every person, irrespective of whether he is a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Hindu, an atheist or an agnostic, knows that defrauding others is wrong. He defrauds others not due to any misconception about the 'goodness' or the 'badness' of defrauding others, but to gain some immediate and quick material gains from such an act. The same is the case of all other basic moral values. The excuse of ignorance, in the case of these basic moral and ethical values, shall therefore not save an individual from punishment on the Day of Judgment, as, in reality, there has never been ignorance in this sphere.

Christian doctrine also has a similar sapiential sense, although they have to complicate things and make it really complex.

Quote :
"It is our ability to know these indemonstrable but indisputable truths that, for want of a "cleaner" phrase, we call sapiential sense. Sapiential sense is the mind’s ability to "see" the truths that constitute reality, grasp things as they are in themselves. The "seeing" of these truths transcends the scope of the scientific method (which is limited to the data of the senses) and of logic (which is limited to "unpacking" the conclusions already contained in premises). "Knowledge," writes Illtyd Trethowan, "is basically a matter of seeing things. . . arguments, reasoning processes, are of secondary importance and this not only because without direct awareness or apprehension no process of thought could get underway at all, but also because the point of these processes is to promote further apprehensions."’
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PostSubject: Re: Shirk   Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:27 am

Nisaa wrote:
I think I was slightly annoyed over something when I posted that. =o I was being arrogant, least people are still teaching Islam, what am I doing? =/

I know many people don't get chances to learn about stuff like this. Alhamdulillah that I have been given a chance.

If the general ruling is haraam then it won't get counted as shirk so if they do it, it's not shirk for them? But for those that knowingly do it.. then it's different?

I don't know much, but I do know everyone is born on the fitrah so when something wrong takes place, you should know, like every Muslim feels it so I don't really have to describe it. Is it possible that this ability that Allah has placed in us to decipher right and wrong regardless our knowledge, can get masked? How do we make sure it's always clean and rust free? What can we do?

There are certain things which if a person does them even without knowledge then he becomes a kaafir, and there are some things that he only becomes a kaafir if he has knowledge of it.

The principle is "that which is known of the deen by necessity", if a person goes against such a thing then he's a kaafir even if he doesn't know that it's kufr, like for instance making sajdah to an idol, or wearing a cross, a person might not know that it takes you out of the fold of islaam and does it in that state of mind, but it still makes him a kaafir.

That's a bit of a flexible rule in some cases, so it's not allllllllltogether a hard and fast rule.

Then there are things which are kufr but aren't widely known as being an act of kufr, so if a person does such a thing ignorantly then he's not declared a kaafir, but if he knows then he becomes a kaafir.

Hmmm now you're entering the realm of kalaam, what is "sin"? what is "goodness"? Is it something which every human knows instinctively, or is it only that which the sharee'ah has said is good and bad?

But i agree with you though that many people can just "feel" when something is wrong, but not everyone is as lucky and blessed as them, because i've come across tons of people who do not realise things are wrong and haraam, how many people don't i know who honestly believe that smoking and music and so on is permissible, they don't have a clue that it's haraam.

But i don't think that ability can get masked on people of knowledge, the only time that happens is when a 'scholar' or even an ordinary person goes bad, then Allaah removes all intelligence from them and they become ignorant jokes, but you don't have to worry about that cos you're very unlikely to take that part anytime soon.

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Nisaa
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PostSubject: Re: Shirk   Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:08 pm

I especially meant in matters or aqeedah.. I dunno because like if you think back to when you were a young child and you didn't really know what is shirk or what is not as in you weren't taught, it's just abnormal to you that someone would do it.. does that make sense? Like it's inside you already you just don't know that yet..

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PostSubject: Re: Shirk   Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:38 pm

I know what you mean, but people come in all shapes and sizes.

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Nisaa
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PostSubject: Re: Shirk   Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:19 pm

Admin wrote:


There are certain things which if a person does them even without knowledge then he becomes a kaafir, and there are some things that he only becomes a kaafir if he has knowledge of it.

The principle is "that which is known of the deen by necessity", if a person goes against such a thing then he's a kaafir even if he doesn't know that it's kufr, like for instance making sajdah to an idol, or wearing a cross, a person might not know that it takes you out of the fold of islaam and does it in that state of mind, but it still makes him a kaafir.

That's a bit of a flexible rule in some cases, so it's not allllllllltogether a hard and fast rule.

Then there are things which are kufr but aren't widely known as being an act of kufr, so if a person does such a thing ignorantly then he's not declared a kaafir, but if he knows then he becomes a kaafir.

Hmmm now you're entering the realm of kalaam, what is "sin"? what is "goodness"? Is it something which every human knows instinctively, or is it only that which the sharee'ah has said is good and bad?

But i agree with you though that many people can just "feel" when something is wrong, but not everyone is as lucky and blessed as them, because i've come across tons of people who do not realise things are wrong and haraam, how many people don't i know who honestly believe that smoking and music and so on is permissible, they don't have a clue that it's haraam.

But i don't think that ability can get masked on people of knowledge, the only time that happens is when a 'scholar' or even an ordinary person goes bad, then Allaah removes all intelligence from them and they become ignorant jokes, but you don't have to worry about that cos you're very unlikely to take that part anytime soon.

But isn't that fitrah, or is being on the fitrah to only know deep down without doubt that Allah exists?
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PostSubject: Re: Shirk   Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:27 pm

Quote :
But isn't that fitrah, or is being on the fitrah to only know deep down without doubt that Allah exists?

You are partially correct, fitrah is more than simply knowing that Allaah is One, fitrah tells us that murder is wrong, that zinaa is wrong etc, certain sins like that fitrah informs you about, but there are many other things that fitrah doesn't tell you that comes from the sharee'ah, for instance men wearing silk, fitrah doesn't tell you anything, it's the sharee'ah that tells you that it's forbidden.

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