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 Studying Aqeedah

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PostSubject: Studying Aqeedah   Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:33 pm

What site is it?

It is advanced innit, can you believe that just 2 years ago i knew almost nothing of aqeedah? :shoked:







[thread was split, didn't wanna ruin the subject]

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:38 pm

When do you learn it?

on my aalimah course (insha Allah) I don't know what I'll learn, and how in what order, what's the typical order you go in?

hoor al ayn.

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:51 am

our "asian" madaaris don't teach aqeedah, they don't even touch the surface of it, only in the 5th year they'll do one small book which is called sharhul aqaaid an nasafiyyah, they dont do any other aqeedah at all, that's why you'll find so many asians who believe that Allaah exists physically everywhere Astaghfirullah

I studied aqeedah seperately with a non asian, but i'm not done yet, after i'm done with him i want to go to syria or one of those places and study there too, then i want to study the salafi aqeedah too, i want to study everything nuts

The aalim course goes like this,

1st year, mainly arabic
2nd year, more arabic related things
3rd year, still some arabic and some explanation of the qur'aan plus beginners fiqh
4th year, a tafseer like jalaalayn and fiqh the first volume of hidaayah, and a book or two of arabic related things
5th year, end off jalaalayn do the second volume of hidaayah, do that tiny book on aqeedah, and perhaps a book of arabic
6th year, hadeeth only

That's more or less how it goes in the darul ulooms.

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:56 am

nooo no no I wanna learn aqeedah!!!

What! They say aqeedah is more important than fiqh !! No they have to do aqeedah this sucks! I wanted to do the aalimah course to learn about Islam, to learn about Allah, to learn the core foundation beliefs!!

='(

Wow, that has proper made me sad. I wanna study aqeedah first! How can I go further if my foundation is all wobbly.. =(

*sigh* I'm still gonna go insha Allah, at least I'll learn Arabic, I do wanna learn Arabic and the learn the tafseer. Then only Allah knows where I'll go from there...

I thought they teach you aqeedah I really did.. it's an aalimah course how could they not..

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:18 am

That's one thing i really disagree with asian 'ulamaa on, they feel you shouldn't delve into aqeedah, just do like 6 points of aqeedah related stuff and thats it nothing more is needed, then they blame salafis for 'misleading' people via their 'corrupt' aqeedah, whereas if they had taught aqeedah in the first place then none of that would have happened, but nooo aqeedah is taboo, i'm telling you i've seen asians 'ulamaa say many times that Allaah is physically everywhere, which is a direct result of them not doing aqeedah when they were in madrassah.

But go for the aalimah course, you will gain much benefit, then your mind will be broader and able to understand many other things.

And one other thing about aqeedah, you'll have to choose a path, salafi or ash'ari, if you take salafi then the ash'aris will take you to task, and if you take ash'ari then salafis will take you to task, and each one will quote the same 'ulamaa but have different interpretations of what those 'ulamaa meant, so if you're gonna get into it then keep that in mind, otherwise you'll be pulled around by each group.

If you ask me who is more authentic then i'll tell you the ash'aris, they've been around for ages, whereas salafis came about only a few years ago, some things the salafis say makes much sense, but when you look at it from another angle then it doesn't anymore.

I myself am not 100% sure of what salafis believe, because every salafi seems to have his own belief, some say it's kufr to believe Allaah exists without a place, others say its wrong, whereas other say that it's true that Allaah exists without a place, so i don't know what exactly is the accepted view of the salafis with regards to aqeedah.

They use one term from the salaf which says "wa huwa 'alal 'arsh, baainun min khalqihi", "And He is upon the 'arsh, seperate from His creation", they use it as a proof to say Allaah is above the 'arsh, but it's not so, because the next part of the sentence negates that, because place is a creation, so if Allaah is seperate from His creation then obviously Allaah is seperate from being in a place too. And there are many other such proofs and things too which proves that Allaah exists without a place.

incidentally that above quote of the salaf was said also by hadhrat abdullaah ibn mubaarak rahimahullaah, and imaam ibn abil izz rahimahullaah mentions it in his sharh of aqeedatut tahaawiyyah and he says that when "above" is used for Allaah then it means status and not a direction, and that no one ever says that Allaah exists in a direction, and this is the same imaam ibn abil izz rahimahullaah which some ash'aris will tell you not to read his books because he was much inclined towards imaam ibn taymiyyah rahimahullaah, and yet he says no one says Allaah exists in a place/direction.

But right now, i must go sleep Neutral

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:33 am

I don't know I have no knowledge... which is why I wanted knowledge..

but now look it feels like I have a missing chunk. =(

Why do scholars argue about all the technicalities though... just keep it simple? =o I dunno! I just think.. when I hear things, and have listened to lectures they (I think salafis) say that ash'aris have it wrong.. but the ash'aris say the salafis have it wrong (from what you've said). Why are there these major differences? From what I've heard (again I'm guessing salafi here because the ash'aris are mentioned separate from ahlus sunnah) they say they only get their evidences from the Qur'an, Sunnah and the understandings of the salaf, then how can that be incorrect? But I don't know anything about ash'aris.. I just don't understand the conflict.. because there's one Islam.. and also I heard that even all the scholars that differed in fiqhi matters agree on the same aqeedah, so what aqeedah was that? because then could they not agree?

I'm not arguing BTW or siding, I can't possibly I know nothing about it, just asking questions. =P So don't get defensive... haha

I got taught Allah was everywhere. =/ I dunno if they meant in physical sense or not, I knew Allah was the greatest, hence, there is none like Him and every human being is born on the fitrah alhamdulillah, and anyway Allah allowed me to learn about this (that some people actually believe it =s) towards the beginning, so that was cleared up before I got further into things.

But there are loads of stuff I don't know concerning this topic and when I find out I do feel a bit sad. How can a Muslim not know these things... how can you not be curious.. and cause I don't even know what every single Muslim is meant to know, I feel a bit lame right now. =/

How can a woman learn aqeedah in a town like this. =/ =( Everyone goes overseas.. They go overseas to learn Arabic and stuff like that too, and it sounds so cool, when they come back they're like Arabic experts..
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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:51 pm

Well I spoke to one of the teachers...

And she told me that you kinda study it here and there. ^_^ So maybe mine is different from yours. ^_^

Even if I don't get to study it all, I shall find something afterwards insha Allah! But I am chuffed at least I can learn Arabic! ^___^

Knowledge, it feels like fresh air. I could eat it. But I still have another hurdle to cross. =o

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:29 pm

Quote :
Why do scholars argue about all the technicalities though... just keep it simple? =o

That's because they try to keep it simple.

Quote :
when I hear things, and have listened to lectures they (I think salafis) say that ash'aris have it wrong.. but the ash'aris say the salafis have it wrong (from what you've said). Why are there these major differences? From what I've heard (again I'm guessing salafi here because the ash'aris are mentioned separate from ahlus sunnah) they say they only get their evidences from the Qur'an, Sunnah and the understandings of the salaf, then how can that be incorrect? But I don't know anything about ash'aris.. I just don't understand the conflict..

You know in reality salafis actually follow the khalaf more than they follow the salaf, and i'm not saying this out of spite or anything, it's just the bitter truth, if i were to give examples of that then it'd take all day.

As for their arguments with ash'aris, it's because they (salafis) are interpreting the 'aqeedah of the salaf according to their interpretation, and then they say that 'this is the aqeedah of the salaf', i was also gonna write an article on that with examples but i never got around to doing it either :o take hadeeth for example, they only follow al albani, if imaam ibn hajar says a hadeeth is saheeh and albani says it's weak then they say it's weak, they will not follow the view of a muhaddith who lived hundreds of hears before albani, take the issue of the 99 names of Allaah, they follow ibn 'uthaymeens view in it, even though the 'ulamaa of before didn't hold that view, and so on and so forth.

Quote :
because there's one Islam.. and also I heard that even all the scholars that differed in fiqhi matters agree on the same aqeedah, so what aqeedah was that? because then could they not agree?

Yep their aqeedah was the same, the aqeedah of the salaf, those who follow that way are called atharis, the ash'aris do have the same 'aqeedah as a whole in the fact that you wouldn't call them deviant or anything, but i personally feel much more at home with the athari aqeedah.

Quote :
I got taught Allah was everywhere. =/ I dunno if they meant in physical sense or not, I knew Allah was the greatest, hence, there is none like Him and every human being is born on the fitrah alhamdulillah, and anyway Allah allowed me to learn about this (that some people actually believe it =s) towards the beginning, so that was cleared up before I got further into things.

That's the 'aqeedah of many asians still today, and it's a baatil 'aqeedah, it was not held by the salaf nor by the khalaf, the ones who held that view were like those who believed in wahdatul wujood, the correct belief is that Allaah exists without a place, because place is a creation, and Allaah is not in need of His creation, and there's a hadeeth in bukhaari which says "Allaah existed and there was nothing besides Him" (kaanallaahu wa lam yakun shay'un ghayruhu), this was before anything was created, and 'changing' is the quality of the creation, so to say that Allaah existed first without place and then created place and became constricted by it is impossible.

But that is a topic for another thread thumbs up

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:03 pm

Don't turn Ash'ari.... Astaghfirullah
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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:09 pm

hmm.. athari?

What... I'm confused, what's atharis

How many are there?

I know salafi and ash'ari... now atharis...

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:11 pm

I think Salafi and Atahri is quiet the same thing....

But yeah, stay away from Asha'rism, Mu'tazilates, Maturidis.
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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:23 pm

Maturidis... new one also.

I think I'm going to get confused. I think it should be okay though, like my madressah won't teach me weird stuff... anyway it's not focused much on that anyway. insha Allah I fit in without difficulty. =o

hmmmm..... I shall make the most of what all I have access to at home, like learning aqeedah etc... but then is that irresponsible?

but I can't claim to know it if I've not been taught it. because you have to be taught face to face.
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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:01 pm

Quote :
Don't turn Ash'ari....

I'm gonna convert you to an ash'ari one of these days Neutral

Quote :
hmm.. athari?

What... I'm confused, what's atharis

Atharis as i mentioned are those like the salaf.

Quote :
How many are there?

Four.

1: Ash'aris
2: Maatureedees
3: Atharis
4: Salafis

Quote :
But yeah, stay away from Asha'rism, Mu'tazilates, Maturidis.

Then they should stay away from salafis too Neutral

Quote :
but I can't claim to know it if I've not been taught it. because you have to be taught face to face.

You can become my mureed and then say you know it rotfl

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:01 pm

Quote :
I'm gonna convert you to an ash'ari one of these days

Try your best Wink

Quote :
2: Maatureedees

Only Sa'udi Salafees (Madkhaleeees) spell like that rotfl

Quote :
Then they should stay away from salafis too

I don't understand what you're saying Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:18 pm

Admin wrote:

The aalim course goes like this,

1st year, mainly arabic
2nd year, more arabic related things
3rd year, still some arabic and some explanation of the qur'aan plus beginners fiqh
4th year, a tafseer like jalaalayn and fiqh the first volume of hidaayah, and a book or two of arabic related things
5th year, end off jalaalayn do the second volume of hidaayah, do that tiny book on aqeedah, and perhaps a book of arabic
6th year, hadeeth only

That's more or less how it goes in the darul ulooms.

Umm.. so where can I study these things?
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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:08 pm

^^ At madressah.

I wanna learn aqeedah. Cause that's the foundation. If I learn all the other stuff before that it'll become messy. I dunno.. hmm.. =(

I was reading that salafi/ash'ari thread on ummah, and I tried following it but it got confusing. =/ =(
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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:24 pm

Thats what I'm thinking..
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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:14 pm

Quote :
Only Sa'udi Salafees (Madkhaleeees) spell like that

Why you think i get called a wahhaabi? Neutral

Quote :
I don't understand what you're saying

I'm saying if a person claims that ash'aris and them are deviant then by right they should call salafis deviant too.

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:16 pm

Quote :
Umm.. so where can I study these things?

Any darul uloom.

Quote :
I wanna learn aqeedah. Cause that's the foundation. If I learn all the other stuff before that it'll become messy. I dunno.. hmm.. =(

Actually you can learn other things before that too, it won't mess you up, as long as you learn it.

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:17 pm

Quote :
I was reading that salafi/ash'ari thread on ummah, and I tried following it but it got confusing. =/ =(

I get lost in that thread too, nothing can confuzzle a person like usooli terms.

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:18 pm

Whats a darul uloom? And where can I find it? STOP BEING SO SHALLOW!!
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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:36 pm

Quote :
Whats a darul uloom? And where can I find it? STOP BEING SO SHALLOW!!

What's a darul uloom? Shocked what part of the world do you live in to not know about darul ulooms? Rubeyes

There's darul ulooms all over the world.

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:38 pm

OMG... just forget it.. call me when u get those ijazas or whatever.. I'll just study under u lol
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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:43 pm

lol. Abu Hafsa you're being a dramatic. =P

But it's okay it's funny. ^_^

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PostSubject: Re: Studying Aqeedah   Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:16 am

Ibn As-Sahaaba wrote:


Only Sa'udi Salafees (Madkhaleeees) spell like that rotfl

you guys.. no one like yell me or anything cause I dunno about madkhalis buut this thing had in stitches...

There's youtube one here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxuc03GEEeA


but there's full upload on ummah...

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220755

post #8


I find it hilarious... =o
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