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Imaam al-Shaafi’i Rahimahullaah said: ‘There is nobody except that he has someone who loves him and someone who hates him. So if that’s the case, let a person be with the people who are obedient to Allaah `Azza Wa Jall.’

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Nisaa
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PostSubject: Questions...   Tue May 26, 2009 8:31 pm

aswrwb

I have a few questions please could someone help me out insha Allah...

What is ta'weel? ... and if my understanding is correct is ta'weel the same as tahreef? Because I'm not really familiar with ta'weel but I know tahreef is like changing/altering( the meanings of?) the aayat of Allah and Allah's attributes.. at least that's the most basic meaning anyway... So what aspects and in what circumstances do we reject ta'weel?

I came across a hadith and it wasn't explained by the sheikh nor was it mentioned but I want to know what it means.. if anyone knows could you explain it to me especially the first part? Here it is..

"The Throne is above the water, and Allah is on the Throne; He knows what you are up to." (Good hadith, reported by Abu Dawud and others.)

(Ohhhh... the beginning of creation hadith.. ?)

And I had a question, when you study aqeedah do you stick to one only? Do you look at some of the works of other scholars from ahlus sunnah wa'l jama'ah after it to strengthen your knowledge or is it just firmly sticking to one?

JazakAllahu khair

BTW don't laugh at me if this is basic stuff I should know.. I am pretty basic. =/

Now I'm more confused... he mentioned the hadith about how Allah is amazed about the youth who has no desires to do evil (something like that) but then he explained like the incorrect understanding and the correct understanding, I agree dur... obviously I have to but.. is explaining not asking how? And we aren't allowed to ask how... (? =o)

And say I ask a question on that hadith... if I put what the sheikh said in my own words to understand it myself and say "oh is it like..." would that be wrong?

I'm afraid of asking questions on this topic.. but I have some.. because I don't want a corrupt understanding on anything. In what areas can I ask questions then?

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Last edited by Nisaa on Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Fri May 29, 2009 2:11 pm

Oh and I was reading Qur'an and I came across the ayah about Allah's throne being above water.. explain the tafseer someone..

The story of beginning of creation... explain this to me as in order of creation...

The messenger of Allah Sallallahu alayhi wa was asked this question by a group that came from Yemen asking “Oh rasoolallah how did this start?” Rasoolallah said “in the beginning there was Allah, there was nothing before Him, and His Throne was on water, and He wrote in the tablet everything and He created the heavens and the earth” (bukhaari paraphrased)

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Sun May 31, 2009 12:00 am

ثُمَّ اسْتَوَى

Allah rose above (His throne...)

Correct, the correct term would be "rose above" and not "established on" ? now I know translations that say "established on" I know English is bad bad bad, and that I should learn Arabic BUT I do need translation, so should I stay away from their translations? Because it makes a difference... to rise over and to establish on.. Allah knows best. I just want my beliefs to be sound and proper..

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:29 am

^^ I think I got confused with those that say Allah 'conquered' His Throne.. =s because that's the wrong belief right?

Quote :
Allaah is above His Throne and He is close to us by His Knowledge
Quran says "Angels and Gabriel ascents to Allah in a day equivalent to 5000 terrestrial years. Does it imply that Allah is controlling the earthly matters sitting on the throne? Then how can be Allah nearer to us than the veins?

Praise be to Allaah.

It is proven in the Qur’aan and Sunnah and by the consensus (ijmaa’) of the salaf (early generations) of this ummah that Allaah is above His heavens on His Throne, and that He is the Exalted, Most High. He is Above all things, and there is nothing that is above Him. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Allaah it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six Days. Then He rose over (Istawaa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). You (mankind) have none, besides Him, as a Wali (protector or helper) or an intercessor. Will you not then remember (or receive admonition)?”

[al-Sajdah 32:4]

“Surely, your Lord is Allaah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then rose over (Istawaa) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty), disposing the affair of all things [Yoonus 10:3]

“To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it (i.e. the goodly words are not accepted by Allaah unless and until they are followed by good deeds) [Faatir 35:10]

“He is the First (nothing is before Him) and the Last (nothing is after Him), the Most High (nothing is above Him) and the Most Near (nothing is nearer than Him) [al-Hadeed 57:3]

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “You are the Most High and there is nothing above You…”

There are many similar ayaat and ahaadeeth. But at the same time, Allaah tells us that He is with His slaves wherever they are:

“Have you not seen that Allaah knows whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is on the earth? There is no Najwa (secret counsel) of three but He is their fourth (with His Knowledge, while He Himself is over the Throne, over the seventh heaven), — nor of five but He is their sixth (with His Knowledge), — nor of less than that or more but He is with them (with His Knowledge) wheresoever they may be” [al-Mujaadilah 58:7]

Allaah has combined mention of His being above His Throne with mention of His being with His slaves in one aayah, where He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then rose over (Istawaa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). He knows what goes into the earth and what comes forth from it, and what descends from the heaven and what ascends thereto. And He is with you (by His Knowledge) wheresoever you may be [al-Hadeed 57:4]

Saying that Allaah is with us does not mean that He is mixed with (or dwells in) His creation; rather He is with His slaves by His knowledge. He is above His Throne and nothing is hidden from Him of what they do. With regard to the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We are nearer to him than his jugular vein (by Our Knowledge)” [Qaaf 50:16]

- most of the mufassireen said that what is meant is that He is near by means of His angels whose task it is to record people’s deeds. And those who said that it means that He is near explained it as meaning that He is near by His knowledge, as is said concerning how He is with us.

This is the view of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, who affirm that Allaah is above His creation and that He is also with His slaves, and they state that He is far above dwelling in His created beings. With regard to the denial of all Divine attributes as voiced by the Jahamiyyah and their followers, they deny that His Essence is above His creatures and that He rose above His Throne, and they say that He is present in His Essence everywhere. We ask Allaah to guide the Muslims.


Shaykh Abd al-Rahmaan al-Barraak

Sorry, I confuse myself. =o I think that question is answered now.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:39 pm

I'll answer this soon too Inshaa Allaah.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:56 pm

I think some of these questions have been asked on IslamQA (?) do a search inshaAllah...
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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:04 pm

I don't know what to type as keyword.. but I will do.. I never thought of that. JazakAllahu khair

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:08 pm

Try typing throne
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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:12 pm

urban_rose wrote:
wa alaikum salaam

In the book 'Kashf al Khafaa' (only in Arabic at the mo) it mentions the ahadeeth on what was created first...and when the 'differences' was worked out, it was found that the first thing created was water, then the Arsh and then the Noor of Rasulullah Sallallahu alayhi wa.

Some people hold the view that the Noor of Rasulullah Sallallahu alayhi wa was the first thing created ever but that is from a fabricated hadeeth...oh and the pen was created after the water and Arsh.

embarassed

What was the first thing to be created?
How can we reconcile between the following ahaadeeth:
“Allaah existed and nothing existed before Him. His Throne was above the water. He wrote all things with His Hand, then He created the heavens and the earth”
and:
As soon as Allaah created the Pen...”?
These ahaadeeth appear to contradict one another as to which thing was created first, and the reports which say that the first one to be created was Muhammad the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Praise be to Allaah.

These ahaadeeth are in harmony with one another; they do not contradict one another. The first thing that Allaah created of the things that are known to us was His Throne, which He rose over after He created the heavens, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And He it is Who has created the heavens and the earth in six Days and His Throne was on the water, that He might try you, which of you is the best in deeds” [Hood 11]

With regard to the Pen, there is nothing in the hadeeth to indicate that the Pen was the first thing created. What the hadeeth means is that when Allaah created the Pen, He commanded it to write, so it wrote down the decrees of all things.

With regard to Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), like all other human beings, he was created from the water (semen) of his father, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. He is no different from other human beings in the manner in which he was created, as he said about himself, “I am a human being, I forget as you forget.” He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) felt fear, got thirsty, felt cold, suffered from the heat, got sick and died. Everything that humans go through as a part of human nature, he also went through, but he is distinguished by the fact that he received Revelation and he was qualified to bear the Message, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Allaah knows best with whom to place His Message” [al-An’aam 6]


Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Rasaa’il Fadeelat al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen, vol. 1, p. 62-63


I'm confused..

Oh okay in another one they say:


Al-Dhahabi narrated in al-‘Alw (al-Mukhtasar, 35) that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr said: Allaah created the water above the seven heavens, and He created the Throne above the water.” Shaykh al-Albaani said: Its isnaad is saheeh.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:17 pm

Quote :
What is ta'weel? ... and if my understanding is correct is ta'weel the same as tahreef? Because I'm not really familiar with ta'weel but I know tahreef is like changing/altering( the meanings of?) the aayat of Allah and Allah's attributes.. at least that's the most basic meaning anyway... So what aspects and in what circumstances do we reject ta'weel?

Ta'weel is very different to tahreef, ta'weel is permissable whereas tahreef is kufr.

Quote :
"The Throne is above the water, and Allah is on the Throne; He knows what you are up to." (Good hadith, reported by Abu Dawud and others.)

The first thing Allaah created was water, then the 'arsh was created above the water, i need to see the arabic of the next part of the hadeeth to give you the meaning, and Allaah knows what everyone does.

Allaah is not in a direction, Allaah exists without a place, so don't interprete that to mean that Allaah is physically above the 'arsh.

Quote :
And I had a question, when you study aqeedah do you stick to one only? Do you look at some of the works of other scholars from ahlus sunnah wa'l jama'ah after it to strengthen your knowledge or is it just firmly sticking to one?

There isn't really that much differences.

Quote :
Now I'm more confused... he mentioned the hadith about how Allah is amazed about the youth who has no desires to do evil (something like that) but then he explained like the incorrect understanding and the correct understanding, I agree dur... obviously I have to but.. is explaining not asking how? And we aren't allowed to ask how... (? =o)

That translation is not good, Allaah does not get amazed, amazed is a word that's no befitting to use for Allaah, atleast the way i understand it anyhow.

What is meant by "how" is like saying "how is the istawaa of Allaah" that is forbidden.

Quote :
In what areas can I ask questions then?

If you're afraid to ask publically then ask me and i'll try to explain Inshaa Allaah, whatever questions you have.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:22 pm

What's ta'weel then?

There's three types of tahreef.. not all are kufr..

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:22 pm

Quote :
These ahaadeeth are in harmony with one another; they do not contradict one another. The first thing that Allaah created of the things that are known to us was His Throne, which He rose over after He created the heavens, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

Sorry but that will not be accepted, as there is a hadeeth which mentions that the first thing Allaah created was water.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:24 pm

Admin wrote:
Quote :
These ahaadeeth are in harmony with one another; they do not contradict one another. The first thing that Allaah created of the things that are known to us was His Throne, which He rose over after He created the heavens, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

Sorry but that will not be accepted, as there is a hadeeth which mentions that the first thing Allaah created was water.

I found another thing on Islam QA under it I posted they said the first thing was water..

So the first thing was water? Then the Throne of Allah and then?

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:27 pm

Quote :
What's ta'weel then?

Ta'weel is a synonym of tafseer.

Quote :
There's three types of tahreef.. not all are kufr..

And what are they? Rubeyes

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:28 pm

Quote :
So the first thing was water? Then the Throne of Allah and then?

Then the qalam (pen)

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:30 pm

JazakAllahu khair

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:39 pm

Admin wrote:
Quote :
What's ta'weel then?

Ta'weel is a synonym of tafseer.

Quote :
There's three types of tahreef.. not all are kufr..

And what are they? Rubeyes

The shiekh said you can do tahreef even by accident and that's not kufr, then there's the one who does bid'ah.. and then the major one and that's kufr..

I'm confused though.. so ta'weel is like tafseer and that's allowed, so what about when they say something wrong does that turn into tahreef?

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:45 pm

Quote :
Allah rose above (His throne...)

Correct, the correct term would be "rose above" and not "established on" ? now I know translations that say "established on" I know English is bad bad bad, and that I should learn Arabic BUT I do need translation, so should I stay away from their translations? Because it makes a difference... to rise over and to establish on.. Allah knows best. I just want my beliefs to be sound and proper..

Rose above is the salafi translation.

The word istawaa has 15 meanings, so why choose rose above?

Imaam Abdul Qaahir Al baghdaadi narrates that hadrat ali radhiallahu anhu said: Verily Allaah created the 'arsh as a display (izhaar) of His Power (Qudrah), and He did not take it (the 'arsh) as a place for his Being (Dhaat)

Quote :
I think I got confused with those that say Allah 'conquered' His Throne.. =s because that's the wrong belief right?

If i recall correctly then i think conquer is one of the meanings of istawaa scratch

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:48 pm

Quote :
The shiekh said you can do tahreef even by accident and that's not kufr, then there's the one who does bid'ah.. and then the major one and that's kufr..

hold on hold hold on, explain what you mean by tahreef.

Quote :
I'm confused though.. so ta'weel is like tafseer and that's allowed, so what about when they say something wrong does that turn into tahreef?

Ta'weel is never tahreef, ta'weel gone wrong can become ibtaal, but not tahreef.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:50 pm

I already explained in the first page.. =o in the first post... when you alter/change the meanings

Tahreef – changing the actual text of the Qur’an and Sunnah into another meanings. (altering the Attributes of Allah) Alhus Sunnah Wa’l Jama’ah describes Allah literally as He has done in the Qur’an and as how Muhammed Sallallahu alayhi wa did in the sunnah.

There ya go. That's what I know... =o

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:35 pm

When I read the Noor part I thought 'Brelwi' ....?

Anyway Admin you said Allah is not physically above the 'Arsh, did the Salaf agree with this view?
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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:37 pm

Admin what do you say concerning the hands of Allah, his eyes etc. ?
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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:37 pm

You have to affirm them because Allah says so in the Qur'an right? But you can't ask how they are..

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:38 pm

Where'd you get that from? Rubeyes

If a so called 'molvi' says ta'weel is tahreef then that molvi is a jaahil, lemme give you an example of ta'weel,

in the qur'aan, surah qalam, ayah 42 i think, Allaah says "yawma yukshafu 'an saaq", the english translation says "on the day when the shin will be laid bare", hadhrat abdullah ibn abbbaas radhiallaahu anhu explains the aayah differently and says that the term "yukshafu 'an saaq" is a term which is used for a severe thing, in this case the severe thing is the day of Qiyaamah, that's ta'weel.

Ta'weel gone wrong is when a person says the yadd of Allaah means power, that is making Ibtaal of a sifah, however to say in one paticular place that yadd here can mean power then there's no harm in that.

Tahreef on the other hand is changing the qur'aan, you get two types, tahreef ma'nawi and tahreef lafzi, tahreef ma'nawi is what so many people are doing today when they change jihaad in the qur'aan to mean other things besides fighting, tahreef lafzi is changing the actual wording of the qur'aan, as how the jews used to do.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions...   Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:39 pm

Ibn As-Sahaaba wrote:
When I read the Noor part I thought 'Brelwi' ....?

Anyway Admin you said Allah is not physically above the 'Arsh, did the Salaf agree with this view?

So you believe Allaah exists in a place?

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