But i was trying not to be

Khalafi is one who follows the khalaf, you get the salaf and you get the khalaf, the salaf are the previous generations, the khalaf is the latter generations.

eh.. you've confused me, I read the article

Who believes in haadir naadhir?

And if someone starts saying haadhir naadhir stuff, what do I do, not any normal person, I mean ME cause I haven't studied aqeedah at all, do I just stay quiet?

ohh barewli... but what's their aqeedah then? Man all these names are confusing... =/ What's the difference between that and a sufi? How do you even say it. =/

i think thats a brelwi belief...and its barelwi/brelwi after the district in India...in short, it were established as a 'movement' at the time of British colonisation in India, Ahmed Reza Khan from Bareilly is one of the prominent guys for that...it was like an opposition/rivalry thing between them and the Deobandis (another movement) and also the Ahle Hadeeth...

from Deobandis, you have the likes of Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi, Shaykul Hadeeth Zakariyya Khandalwi and an offshoot of that is the Tabligh Jamaat. they believed in like personal religious development with emphasis on a religious guide during the troubled times, they were centered to Hanafi, with strict devotion to Quraan, Hadeeth, Sunnah and scholarly fatwas. Brelwis grouped them with the Wahhabis of the Arab world because of similar ideas and opinions held. they established the deoband seminary and a few others around India.

then Brelwis, had a broader interpretation of Hanafi law and they had more customary practices and traditions, such as mawlid, qawwali, tomb visits and they placed more importance on the intercession of the ulema for religious responsibility in place of the personal one that Deobandis taught. they marked noted occasions like Milad, birth/death dates of 'peers' etc, whereas Deobandis and Ahle Hadeeth took it as bidah.
they claimed all acitivities were an expression of their increased devotion to Rasulullah and held concepts such as Rasulullah 's having a 'light' which derived from Allah's own Light and it had existed from beginning of creation. Wahhabis said this compromised the unity of Allah, but Brelwis said this was an example of high status of Rasulullah and world created for his glory, and some believe in Rasulullah being of light and had no shadow and so on. and that he is observant in all places, hence the haadhir naadhir thing...he were human but different to other humans. Also believed that he had ilmul ghayb, which others refuted as being a quality of Allah.
Believe that Rasulullah visits during Milad in a concept called 'qiyaam'...
and that saints had powers of intercession...

Ahle Hadeeth basically gave more importance to hadeeth and were quite 'strict' in their beliefs, they didnt have one particular school of thought, had distinguishable dress, beards, prayer style.

Sufis of the 'asli' age and thought are very rare these days, overshadowed by Haqqani and co...they tend to have the elaborate custom laden practices, with Mawlid, saintly 'worship' and other things which are quite controversial and classed as bidah by many...however, in the 18th/19th century, with Deoband, many of the Ulema were Sufi in the original sense, following usually the Naqshbandi or Chishti Sufism and did give importance to the bayah and shaykh/mureed thing, but it were more personal rather than the collective Sufi practices of modern day...so in that, although they may claim to be from the same Sufi tariqahs of the same names, it is soooo different in practice.

Generally, the Deobandis/Ahle Hadeeth were centered around the urban, city life and the Brelwis for the rural,. villages...where people were more eager to hold on to the customs and traditions.
It was initially and essential only to the Indian political/religious scene at the time...but with the post-1947 immigration patterns and such, its been brought to different countries by the original Indians/Pakistanis of those very places....so people may still hold those beliefs and titles to distinguish themselves here.

Okay now tell me what the main difference is between Deobandis and Ahle Hadith...

Can't you just be tagless?

yes, you can be tagless...situations are different now anyhow, but people often hold same beliefs of any of those groups without labelling themselves under them...

initially, each of these groups was centered only to the geographical districts were they were common and according to the 'class' of family/community, but the different situations led to more dispersion and variance....

so the Ahle Hadeeth were largely in the areas of Delhi and Bhopal, whereas Deoband and Saharanpur (and few others which i cant remember) were Deobandi and Brelwis in Bareilly...same time, Qadian was prominently Ahmadiyyah.

Ahle Hadeeth largely committed to revitalising by getting rid of the customs, they denied the validity of the law schools and used a literal study of the Quraan and ahadeeth...they disregarded Sufi practises/meditation/self discipline...
Deobandis said Ahle Hadeeth had too radical an approach to law.
Oh and Ahle Hadeeth came from a social background of aristocracy and highly educated...
they didnt have any regard for the four schools of thought and held view that they were beginning to supercede Quraan/Hadeeth...they opposed the brelwi practises but felt they had special devotion and connection to Rasulullah with their love, through their commitment to hadeeth...some actually prohibited the visit to Madinah/Rasulullah 's grave, cus of the bidah which can become associated with it.
they stuck strongly to the 5 pillars but main emphasis on salaah....they differed here with the Deobandis as they didnt pray in a Hanafite way (like Deobandis) but they practised ameen bil jahr, i think its called where the Ameen is said aloud, raf yadaain, raising of hands at ruku' and the reciting of Surah al Fatiha out loud.

within Ahle Hadeeth, there musta been some conflicts because there were a splinter group which emerged known as Ahle Quraan who took only Quraan aayahs as compulsory, they had quite a difference in rituals to the other groups, with a removal of adhaan, prayed only fardh rakaahs and i think they had different salaah motions with kneeling on one knee or something like that oh and they also remove funeral and Eid salaah...

That's so intense...

Where did you learn all that masha Allah I seriously am oblivious. =/

I read a book in the Summer, i dunno if i posted it in book thread

this one http://www.infibeam.com/Books/info/default/islamic-revival-british-india-deoband-1860-1900/9780195660494.html

was a bit sceptical at first but it were realllllllllyyyyy good! because she utilises all the Deoband publications as referencing and shes not biased or anything.

So you're saying all this happened in India like all the tags or whatever, what about the rest of the world?

Split the thread and give it a new title, I'm kinda interested now.

Some teabags have tags.

Now I wonder if it's possible to study all about each and every single group. I'll be old and frail. =/

I kinda feel like I'm in limbo. I dunno.. it gets confusing when you don't know much. =(

Oh and an actual aqeedah question, we affirm Allah speaks in whatever befits His manner because the Qur'an is the word of Allah and Allah spoke to Musa alayhis salaam

The word "voice" can that be used?

^ Theres only when group you need to know about, when you know about them you know the rest are on baatil by default

Quote:

You ask about which group you should join. I advise you to aid the truth and Tawhid (pure monotheism) and its adherents, and to search for those who best fulfill this description and be patient alongside them, as Allah Said to His Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم): {“And be patient alongside those who call upon their Lord in the morning and afternoon, seeking His Face…”} [al-Kahf; 28] You have to first know and learn the truth and Tawhid in order to know its adherents, because people are recognized in light of the truth. So, if you come to know the closest people to the call to Tawhid, hold tightly to their friendship and help them as much as you can. Beware of blind allegiance to personalities, as this will block you off from much good. The people of the truth that I advise you to stick with must combine these important characteristics: * they adhere to the belief of Ahl as-Sunnah wal-Jama’ah * they follow the Prophetic method in calling to Tawhid and disassociating themselves from shirk * they do this openly, just as Prophet Ibrahim and his followers did * they do not have blind allegiance except to textual evidence * they do their part in aiding and giving victory to the Religion * they are not hurt by those who oppose them or betray them, as in the description of the Ta’ifah al-Mansurah (the Victorious Group – may Allah make us from it)…”

That was taken from brother Abu Sabaya's blog (fakkAllah asrahu)

_________________
For Allah ('azza wajal) is above His Throne, above His Heavens, separate from His creation, so whoever doesn't know Him like this, then he doesn't know His God Whom he worships (ad-Darimi in 'ar-Rad alal-Jahmiyyah).

A teabag without a bag is tea. Not a teabag. =/

Salafis say it's okay to say voice? Really?

^ What do you think if someone says Allah laughs ?

Like my brother says "just cause you can't take it"

I see that what I said might've sounded wrong but I know like we don't liken to the creation... I guess I will remain confused until I get some proper knowledge on the subject. How come learning aqeedah and stuff isn't so stressed.. unless maybe when I keep going I'll learn some more. ^_^

I can't read Arabic, I'm no where near being able to read Arabic..