Where is Allah

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:12 pm

I wasn't taking you to task above btw, i was just explaining in general.

_________________
“There is no worse calamity for knowledge and its people than when outsiders intrude. They are ignorant, but presume to know. They cause trouble yet think that they are helping.” - Imam Ibn Hazm Rahimahullah

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:19 pm

Oh well I felt like I had to answer them. =/

It's the use of the general 'you' again. It kinda has that effect on the reader.

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:52 pm

Shaikh Haitham Hamdan:

Quote:

Makaan (Place)

The Place (Makaan) of something is merely a concept that exists in our
minds; there is nothing outside the mind that is a Place (Makaan).

For example, if you did not exist, where would your Place (Makaan) be?
The answer is nowhere, you wouldn’t have a Place (Makaan), because you
do not exist.

A Place (Makaan) is a concept that we associate with things that exist
outside the mind. It is a way for us to relate the existence of an
object to the existence of other objects in this universe. It is not
that Allah created a Place (Makaan) for us, and then put us into this
place.

Therefore, it is ridiculous to ask, ‘how can Allah assume a Place
(Makaan) when a Place (Makaan) is from the creation of Allah?’ A Place
(Makaan) is not something that you assume, it is a concept that results
from your existence. A relationship between you and the universe.

The Place (Makaan) of something cannot exist in our minds if that
something did not exist. At the same time, we cannot perceive of
something existing outside out minds and it not having a place. If it
is to relate to other beings then it must have a place, it makes no
sense saying Allah exists without a place. It will result in making
Allah into a mere mental being that has no existence outside the mind.

Waqt (Time)

The relationship between Place (Makaan) and matter is the same relationship between Time (Waqt) and action.

Time (Waqt) is a measure of action, and the measurements of a series of actions makes Time (Waqt).

The duration of an action locates it in Time (Waqt), just as the Place (Makaan) of an object locates it in space.

Time (Waqt) is not something that exists outside the human mind, it is
associated with actions. If there is no action there will be no Time
(Waqt), it (Time) cannot exist without actions occurring.

Allah has always existed, so there was always a Place (Makaan) and He has always acted, so there was always Time (Waqt).

To say that Time (Waqt) and Place (Makaan) are creatures of Allah is
incorrect. They are mental beings that exist as an extension to the
existence of action and matter.

And what reply did 'Sunni'Forum give? Well, keep reading

Quote:

Had the Wahhabis read and pondered the 99 names of Allah then this would have not been an issue.

Allah is Al-Awaal, He is the first before everything

Al-Khaliq, the Creator and everything else is His creation, even your mind and thoughts

Al-Baqi, one who always stays

Al-Qadeem, one who never changes & always remains

Al-Ghani, the All-Independent

So to say that time and space existed along with Him, is to deny He is the Al-Awaal and al-Qadeem.

Allah was the Khaliq before He created, nothing resembles Him, and
those who try to liken Him to the creation will enter Hell fire
disgraced and shamed, may Allah's curse be on the mujasimites, don’t
bring from a rotten forum their arguments here, as you will carry the
weight of any misguidance and pay for it dearly in front of Allah

Perhaps that is the reason why the wahhabis cannot take the 99 names of
Allah, and are its enemies, as it contradicts their false beliefs, and
for this reason we have the likes of the perished al-Albani coming
forward and falsely weakening the hadeeth that speaks of Allah's 99
names and attributes, may Allah give this chief innovator of this age
what he deserves in the afterlife, and may Allah annihilate the wahhabi
mujasim da3wah and their misguidance.

_________________
For Allah ('azza wajal) is above His Throne, above His Heavens, separate from His creation, so whoever doesn't know Him like this, then he doesn't know His God Whom he worships (ad-Darimi in 'ar-Rad alal-Jahmiyyah).

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:00 pm

I came across something today, it was a poem

And it's in urdu, I don't have it with me, for me to copy it.

But the words used were regarding Allah

It had the words hadir and nathir and jaha kaha... basically

"Allah is the supervisor and He is present all over"

But I don't know what exactly it meant, could have been with Allah's knowledge or other attributes like hearing and seeing but dunno... I didn't say anything though.. or ask.. =o I'm such a clutz.

I want the poem, when I get it insha Allah soon I shall post it, it has a lot of Allah's attributes in it. I guess I gotta learn it but I dunno.. like.. *shrugs* if it's like okay ... yer gets me.

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:18 pm

Please share it when you get it

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:24 pm

And Kasim bhai can translate as it has some high class urdu in it.

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:49 pm

it depends how high...as im not a professor either lol

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:14 pm

Nah man not super high class, just high for me cause my urdu is weak. ^_^

I didn't know what Hadir and nathir meant. =/

It'll be Monday when/if I can get it.

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:50 pm

Haazir means present
And Naazir means watching
So Allah Almighty is both

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:37 pm

Admin wrote:

The atharis do not believe in asking such questions, a person is mubtadi' for asking such a thing, besides "where" is a place, but anyway the position of the atharis is as stated at the end of my first post.

Okay but what about the hadith where the messenger of Allah Sallallahu alayhi wa

asked the slave girl three questions? (I think 3 questions...)

I don't have it with me, but they use it as proof in that we CAN ask 'where' ... is Allah. I'm not making it up, I clearly remember it..

And what does literal mean? Like literally take it without any distortions... but then we don't do tamtheel or ask how so.. that's how we understand literal right?

And what is literal in arabic, is that dhaahir? Then what's haqiqi, and what's the opposite of dhaahir and what's the difference between that and the opposite of haqiqi

OR is dhaahir and haqiqi the same and is the opposite of both the same just different terms?

What exactly is 'dhaat' ?

Regarding tashbeeh:

Whilst at madrasah something was being explained, and in my head I thought that was wrong.. but then I remembered later that it probably depends on the person's intentions, right?

Example:

Allah's name and Attributes

Now to explain to a layman about what Allah's names and Attributes mean, as in the word not a name or attribute of Allah.

What was happening was in order to explain how Allah has (perfect) names and attributes, the example of a human.. was given, how he has a name and how he has qualities. You see... so the question is, is it tashbeeh then if you're just explaining? I was listening to something before also, and the speaker was like 'some people may think we're doing tashbeeh, but we aren't, that wasn't the intention, the intention was to explain to those with what is easy for us to understand'

I had assumed that you MUST like say that 'BUT Allah is PERFECT, so Allah is free from being like this creation' and all throughout I was like

?

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:16 pm

Kasim wrote:

Please share it when you get it

I have it now, scanned and ready to post, shall I post?

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:52 pm

Quote:

Oh well I felt like I had to answer them. =/

It's the use of the general 'you' again. It kinda has that effect on the reader.

Sorry about that, i'll try not to use it again Inshaa Allaah.

_________________
“There is no worse calamity for knowledge and its people than when outsiders intrude. They are ignorant, but presume to know. They cause trouble yet think that they are helping.” - Imam Ibn Hazm Rahimahullah

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:55 pm

Quote:

I have it now, scanned and ready to post, shall I post?

Yes.

_________________
“There is no worse calamity for knowledge and its people than when outsiders intrude. They are ignorant, but presume to know. They cause trouble yet think that they are helping.” - Imam Ibn Hazm Rahimahullah

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:02 pm

Quote:

Shaikh Haitham Hamdan:

His interpretation of place is very weak, if place was as he claims it is then what would the need be for imaam tahaawi rahimahullaah to say "laa ta7weehil jihaatus sittu kasaa'iril mubtadi'aat"?

The problem is quite simple, the problem is that it's modern day people using modern day terms and modern day minds to try and interprete things which have already been interpreted by the 'ulamaa of that time, so there is really no need to look at modern peoples interpretations.

As for sunni forums response, i'm not surprised at it, but i can't exactly talk myself until my aadaab is the way it's supposed to be Neutral

_________________
“There is no worse calamity for knowledge and its people than when outsiders intrude. They are ignorant, but presume to know. They cause trouble yet think that they are helping.” - Imam Ibn Hazm Rahimahullah

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:26 pm

Quote:

It had the words hadir and nathir and jaha kaha... basically

"Allah is the supervisor and He is present all over"

But I don't know what exactly it meant, could have been with Allah's knowledge or other attributes like hearing and seeing but dunno... I didn't say anything though.. or ask.. =o I'm such a clutz.

You have to watch out for asian works where 'aqeedah in concerned because many of their books are full of wahdatul wujood, hadhir nathir is another one of those things, what they mean by that statement is that Allaah is that Allaah is everywhere, some say Allaah is just everywhere and they don't go any deeper than that, others say no Allaah is physically everywhere.

Quote:

Okay but what about the hadith where the messenger of Allah asked the slave girl three questions? (I think 3 questions...)

That hadeeth has a number of different wordings, the narration of imaam maalik doesn't use the term "where is Allaah".

Quote:

I don't have it with me, but they use it as proof in that we CAN ask 'where' ... is Allah. I'm not making it up, I clearly remember it..

Who are these people that say this? eek3

The quote of imaam maalik rahimahullaah is a prrof against them where he says in reply to the man asking about the istawaa of Allaah "and asking about it is bid'ah"

Quote:

And what does literal mean? Like literally take it without any distortions... but then we don't do tamtheel or ask how so.. that's how we understand literal right?

And what is literal in arabic, is that dhaahir? Then what's haqiqi, and what's the opposite of dhaahir and what's the difference between that and the opposite of haqiqi

OR is dhaahir and haqiqi the same and is the opposite of both the same just different terms?

This in depth things i can't tell you, you'll have to ask al ghazalli for that, he should know it.

Quote:

What exactly is 'dhaat' ?

The "self" or "being", like the dhaat of Allaah.

Quote:

Regarding tashbeeh:

Whilst at madrasah something was being explained, and in my head I thought that was wrong.. but then I remembered later that it probably depends on the person's intentions, right?

Can you explain more?

Quote:

What was happening was in order to explain how Allah has (perfect) names and attributes, the example of a human.. was given, how he has a name and how he has qualities. You see... so the question is, is it tashbeeh then if you're just explaining? I was listening to something before also, and the speaker was like 'some people may think we're doing tashbeeh, but we aren't, that wasn't the intention, the intention was to explain to those with what is easy for us to understand'

I had assumed that you MUST like say that 'BUT Allah is PERFECT, so Allah is free from being like this creation' and all throughout I was like

hmmmm Allaahu a'lam.

But i suppose if you are not making a likeness to Allaah by using a man as an example then it won't be wrong to do it.

_________________
“There is no worse calamity for knowledge and its people than when outsiders intrude. They are ignorant, but presume to know. They cause trouble yet think that they are helping.” - Imam Ibn Hazm Rahimahullah

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:36 pm

Nooo! I thought the quote by imam Malik was asking HOW - asking how is a bid'ah because the istiwaa is known, right? I have it let me go read it.. oh I can't even find it now.

I was saying with regards to the question, like 'where is Allah' and then you point the person to the Qur'an not how or anything..

I didn't think even asking that question is a bid'ah? Maybe I misunderstood? =(

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:42 pm

Here's the poem, I don't know what it all means, so I would appreciate a translation if possible.

Someone's bound to have done it before. =/

I think it was just the hadir nathir part. *shrugs* don't even know what else it means, or and that house part I didn't understand.

And I heard in a lecture my Sheikh Feiz that the angel Izraeel alayhis salaam is not the one that takes the soul by Allah's command, that's based on a weak narration, it's malikul mawt that takes it. ?

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:19 pm

There's no saheeh narration that can be relied on that says his name is Azraeel/Izraeel...
Allah called him "Malak al-Mawt" in the Qur'an so it's best to stick to taht....

_________________
For Allah ('azza wajal) is above His Throne, above His Heavens, separate from His creation, so whoever doesn't know Him like this, then he doesn't know His God Whom he worships (ad-Darimi in 'ar-Rad alal-Jahmiyyah).

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:19 pm

Quote:

Nooo! I thought the quote by imam Malik was asking HOW - asking how is a bid'ah because the istiwaa is known, right? I have it let me go read it.. oh I can't even find it now.

I was saying with regards to the question, like 'where is Allah' and then you point the person to the Qur'an not how or anything..

I didn't think even asking that question is a bid'ah? Maybe I misunderstood? =(

Where is part of how is it not?

Anyhow, in the book "at-tabseer fid deen wa tamyeezu firqatin naajiyati 'anil firaqil haalikeen" there's a narration where a person asked 'Ali Radhiallaahu 'Anhu "where is Allaah" to which he replied "It must not be said 'where' to the one who created the place"

And the author of this book (Abu muzaffar al-isfaraayeenee) passed away in the year 471 A.H., so ask yourself who'd know better, someone who lived immediately after the salaf or someone who lived 1000 years after them?

Quote:

I think it was just the hadir nathir part. *shrugs* don't even know what else it means, or and that house part I didn't understand.

My urdu is not good enough to understand it either, even though it's ordinary enough urdu.

Quote:

And I heard in a lecture my Sheikh Feiz that the angel Izraeel alayhis salaam is not the one that takes the soul by Allah's command, that's based on a weak narration, it's malikul mawt that takes it. ?

I've heard that lecture too, but that's his opinion that malakul mawt's name is not izraa'eel, Qaadhi iyyaadh radhimahullaah says it is his name, and i know who i hold in higher regard between Qaadhi 'iyyaadh rahimahullaah who passed away around 700 years ago and modern salafis who say otherwise.

You see i hate half baked people, if a person wants to call themself a salafi then they must go all the way, follow the salaf in 'aqeedah, follow the salaf in fiqh, follow the salaf in hadeeth, and follow it according to their interpretations and not modern peoples interpretations, that person can then be called a salafi, but unfortunately i've found that the majority of people who call themselves salafis are actually more khalafi than anything else, it's a sad state of affairs.

_________________
“There is no worse calamity for knowledge and its people than when outsiders intrude. They are ignorant, but presume to know. They cause trouble yet think that they are helping.” - Imam Ibn Hazm Rahimahullah

Subject: Re: Where is Allah Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:19 pm

You're patronising... =o

I dunno, but I'm probably wrong anyway. =P

khalifi ? You what... I've never heard of that..